ashevans09 Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Hi there, Pretty base question but hey... What's the difference between a tweeter and a horn in a cabinet? And how does this affect tone? Thanks for any help Ash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul, the Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 I'll admit to not knowing either - this might help: [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tweeter#Types_of_tweeters"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tweeter#Types_of_tweeters[/url] --- I always figured bass bins are bass cabs designed for PA systems. Am I right? Can you just use them for bass? paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 That wikipedia link is pretty damn good! There are three different sorts of tweeter I've come across in bass cabs. The cheapest and usually worst sounding is the piezo tweeter - ironically an array of piezo tweeters as in the BFM horn cabs can sound great but as used on its lonesome in a 2-way bass cab they're pretty hopeless - too little power handling, too little sensitivity. But they are very cheap and don't require (or even benefit from) a crossover as they're a capacitive load and are thus naturally highpassed. The most common tweeter found in bass cabs is the horn tweeter, using a compression driver on a small horn. This can sound amazing or terrible depending on the implementation. The reason most horn drivers sound bad is because the crossover does not have a steep enough slope so too much bottom hits them which makes them distort. The other reason is that when used in a 2-way bass cab (woofer plus tweeter, no midrange speaker) the off-axis response of the woofer is long gone before the tweeter kicks in, so unless the speaker is pointing directly at you there will be a large gap in the upper midrange making the treble seem harsh and disconnected. A select few companies like Bergantino and Euphonic Audio do a great job with these horn tweeters by using a large enough horn crossed over sufficiently low and even woofers whose off-axis midrange response is extended by flexure. This costs money though, as do high order crossovers. The final tweeter found in bass cabs is the dome tweeter. Nice and smooth sounding, lower distortion but not terribly loud or great at handling power. This approach only works well when you have a midrange speaker to fill the gap between woofer and tweeter but then it works great! This approach was pioneered by Acme and further popularised by AccuGroove (identical model of tweeter but the Acme uses a more complex crossover instead of two tweeters to get sufficient power handling). If you hate tweeters you probably haven't heard a good one. And they're not just for slappers, they can really improve the whole definition of your sound in a rather hard to perceive way - a bit like the way a good kick drum sound has a surprising amount of treble to define the attack. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB1 Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 MB1. be) Youll instinctively know when youve got the horn! MB1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 [quote name='alexclaber' post='16474' date='Jun 12 2007, 08:06 PM']That wikipedia link is pretty damn good! There are three different sorts of tweeter I've come across in bass cabs. The cheapest and usually worst sounding is the piezo tweeter - ironically an array of piezo tweeters as in the BFM horn cabs can sound great but as used on its lonesome in a 2-way bass cab they're pretty hopeless - too little power handling, too little sensitivity. But they are very cheap and don't require (or even benefit from) a crossover as they're a capacitive load and are thus naturally highpassed. The most common tweeter found in bass cabs is the horn tweeter, using a compression driver on a small horn. This can sound amazing or terrible depending on the implementation. The reason most horn drivers sound bad is because the crossover does not have a steep enough slope so too much bottom hits them which makes them distort. The other reason is that when used in a 2-way bass cab (woofer plus tweeter, no midrange speaker) the off-axis response of the woofer is long gone before the tweeter kicks in, so unless the speaker is pointing directly at you there will be a large gap in the upper midrange making the treble seem harsh and disconnected. A select few companies like Bergantino and Euphonic Audio do a great job with these horn tweeters by using a large enough horn crossed over sufficiently low and even woofers whose off-axis midrange response is extended by flexure. This costs money though, as do high order crossovers. The final tweeter found in bass cabs is the dome tweeter. Nice and smooth sounding, lower distortion but not terribly loud or great at handling power. This approach only works well when you have a midrange speaker to fill the gap between woofer and tweeter but then it works great! This approach was pioneered by Acme and further popularised by AccuGroove (identical model of tweeter but the Acme uses a more complex crossover instead of two tweeters to get sufficient power handling). If you hate tweeters you probably haven't heard a good one. And they're not just for slappers, they can really improve the whole definition of your sound in a rather hard to perceive way - a bit like the way a good kick drum sound has a surprising amount of treble to define the attack. Alex[/quote] Brilliant succint answer, this should be a sticky methinks! The tweeter in my old MAG 4x10 cab was lovely and smooth. The Fostex horn in my current Trace 2x10 is bloody horrible and I've dialled it out completely. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't buy a horn loaded can next, it's just sh*t in the Trace 2x10 config. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashevans09 Posted June 12, 2007 Author Share Posted June 12, 2007 [quote name='Merton' post='16510' date='Jun 12 2007, 09:05 PM']Brilliant succint answer, this should be a sticky methinks![/quote] +1 . Cheers Alex! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 [quote name='alexclaber' post='16474' date='Jun 12 2007, 03:06 PM']The cheapest and usually worst sounding is the piezo tweeter - Alex[/quote] When properly employed piezos work better than dynamic compression drivers. The problem with piezos is they are the least expensive tweeters available, and that makes them the tweeter of choice in inexpensive poorly engineered speakers. I switched to piezos for good when I found that a dozen of them, at $2 each, worked better than my $275 JBL 2426 driver coupled to a $180 JBL 2370 horn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOD2 Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 [quote name='paul, the' post='16420' date='Jun 12 2007, 07:11 PM']I always figured bass bins are bass cabs designed for PA systems. Am I right? Can you just use them for bass?[/quote] This goes back to the topic of "bi-amping" really. A "bass bin" is a speaker enclosure designed to handle only the lower end of the frequency spectrum. Depending on the design it won't have much response in the mids and none at all in the highs. When used in a PA appication it will be teamed up with separate mid and high speakers so that the together the complete setup has a full frequency response. If it doesn't have a built-in crossover then it should be fed with the low signal from a separate crossover. You could only use them with bass if there's a crossover and other speakers to handle the mid/highs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.