Ou7shined Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 I think lowballing is fine but it's all about attitude. If they come at you and say "You're price is wrong, I'll give you xyz for it" tell them to poke it. But if they are polite and maybe produce a link or two then their offer will get more consideration and possibly lead to negotiations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolverinebass Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1321201' date='Jul 30 2011, 11:53 AM']I feel the same way when people want more for a bass thats had a setup to be honest, £30 on a setup for you means nothing to me and if the bass was in such an unplayable state that only a pro could get it back to where I could adjust it to my taste then whats been going on with it in the first place?[/quote] Now that is so true. "It's been set up professionally" screams the ad or advertiser. Yeah, but I bet you don't like the action as low as I do, so I'll still have to spend £30 to get it lowered down to nothing anyway. How is that a negotiating point? The advertiser might as well say, "It's been set up in a way that will make it very different from what you ideally would want. Hope that's okay for you to pay for this privelige then pay for it again to get the bass set up as you would like." Good luck mate and dare I say it, jog on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 I don't personally see any reason to hyperventilate about someone making an offer. And asking for postage to be included is, as far as I can see, the same as making an offer that is lower to the value of the postage. If you don't want to accept it, just say 'no' - with 17,000 registered members here anything will sell if it is priced realistically. Surely life is too short to worry about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomBassmonkey Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Having an offer made is fine, I usually ask if someone will knock off a bit of cash when I buy, it's only natural. The example I gave before though was after over a week of the potential trader telling me he definitely wanted to do the trade but refusing to make me a solid offer, then giving a cheaper model of bass as justification why I should drop my price then when I even agreed to that expecting the value of his bass at about £100 more than they can be picked up for. Total waste of time and left me feeling cold that someone had no interest in making a deal unless they were ripping me off. I don't understand the idea of firm price though, if you have a firm price in mind, add £50 to it then stick it up on the forum and it gives you room to negotiate with people that try and get it a bit cheaper and you come across as a nice guy. You may even get lucky and someone will buy that doesn't try to negotiate or will ask you to cover postage and pay the full price so you get a bit extra. As a point about the set-ups, if a bass has recently had a pro set up, it does mean that it's unlikely to have problems with it (assuming the seller's trustworthy), not guaranteed though. It also gives you a better idea of how it plays when you try it, obviously not great when it's not set up for you. I have no problems doing stuff to my instruments when I sell them within reason anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 [quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1321331' date='Jul 30 2011, 02:34 PM']As a point about the set-ups, if a bass has recently had a pro set up, it does mean that it's unlikely to have problems with it (assuming the seller's trustworthy), not guaranteed though.[/quote] I have never had a good setup from a shop ever infact PMT 'looked over' the Ray 5 while I was paying and they made it worse infact it had no tension in the truss rod at all. I can make minor changes and the rest is done by a mate more clued up than me for mates rates (food, labour or just general begging etc). You can only really learn by having a go whilst being shown too IMO, How do they know what you want or do they set it up and people just get used to that guys personal setup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckstop Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Another reason why I don't expect to pay extra for a set-up is because more often than not the seller is lying to your face! Wow, the guitar is set-up so that you can play it properly... ok, I can do that with a couple of allen keys at home in half an hour. I'm not going to say that it's been 'set-up', I'm just going to say that it works like a bass should! Supposing you turn up to try the bass out before you buy it, who's to say that a £30 set-up's been done on it specifically for the purpose of selling it on? Truckstop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjm Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1321369' date='Jul 30 2011, 03:19 PM']I have never had a good setup from a shop ever infact PMT 'looked over' the Ray 5 while I was paying and they made it worse infact it had no tension in the truss rod at all. I can make minor changes and the rest is done by a mate more clued up than me for mates rates (food, labour or just general begging etc). You can only really learn by having a go whilst being shown too IMO, How do they know what you want or do they set it up and people just get used to that guys personal setup?[/quote] Depends on who has done setup, saying its worthless is like stating a service carried out on a car you where buying was a waste of time. asking extra is not on though, should mean bass comes with no unexpected issues if done by someone who has had either correct training or working knowledge of whats required and that can be difficult to find sometimes, and yes personal tastes would dictate an optimum setup but a general once over from someone who knows what is req does have value in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3below Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Setups are an interesting point, both my basses have been done in the last few years, £40 a time which included fret levelling and profiling. I paid a fair price for the last one, having had it setup it is better than it was (A1 in fact). So if I sell what do I do, just take the hit or try and get the cost back. Can't blame people for asking, though it does depend on quality of setup. I just factor this into my buying price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_D Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 [quote name='Ross' post='1321092' date='Jul 30 2011, 09:13 AM']I sometimes come in with a low offer expecting someone to counter offer. Not ri.diculously low but one of the reasons I buy second hand is because you can haggle the price down a bit. One thing I never got about cars is when people use paying in cash as a bargaining point, you can pay by any way you want it aint gonna make the price go down.[/quote] Valid point but some jack ass tried to buy my old motor with travellers cheques once! I just laughed at him and put the phone down. Another guy wanted ME to go 10 miles down the road and meet him so he could buy it off me... and why would I do that you plumb? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 [quote name='kjm' post='1321381' date='Jul 30 2011, 03:32 PM']Depends on who has done setup, saying its worthless is like stating a service carried out on a car you where buying was a waste of time. asking extra is not on though, should mean bass comes with no unexpected issues if done by someone who has had either correct training or working knowledge of whats required and that can be difficult to find sometimes, and yes personal tastes would dictate an optimum setup but a general once over from someone who knows what is req does have value in my opinion.[/quote] A setup and a service are different, If parts need servicing/or replacing like on a car thats fair enough but tweaking a neck and raising the action does not compare IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjm Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1321428' date='Jul 30 2011, 04:20 PM']A setup and a service are different, If parts need servicing/or replacing like on a car thats fair enough but tweaking a neck and raising the action does not compare IMO.[/quote] depends on what is done on setup and adjustments are made during services are they not and parts are replaced if required during a proper setup if required. intonation may need setting, nut may need filing to suit, there is more involved then tweaking a neck and adjusting saddles sorry but guess we will have to agree to disagree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 (edited) I set up a guitar one time which (as per my terms where you get a few days within reason to let it settle in and if you're not happy I'll reset it again for free) came back [b]a day later[/b] completely different from how I'd left it and all fecked up. The guy had obviously tried to do some remedial work himself - that's the problem with doing a full set up in front of your customer .. it looks easy. So claims of a setup (like your car MOT certificate) is only reliable for the day it was done. Edited July 30, 2011 by Ou7shined Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 [quote name='CyberBass' post='1321160' date='Jul 30 2011, 11:01 AM']It does surprise me a little that people are shocked at getting low offers for the items they sell. I think yes it is annoying, however it is the starting point of communication and negotiation, it is an opportunity to sell your item at a mutually acceptable amount. The key is not put your item too cheaply to begin with. In the Uk we seem to shun the bartering and get all offended. Most other countries embrace it, and expect it. Rightly or wrongly, we can all be offended by low offers, my recommendation is to put an opening price and use the low offer as an opening to negotiating a price you are happy with, that way you get what you want and the buyer feels he has made a saving. Win win all round.[/quote] Don't get me wrong, I love a bit of bartering and i don't like it when people refuse to take even a small amount off it. In fact I started off at about £1200, which then got negotiated down to £1100. Fine. But £500? That's just an insult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberBass Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 [quote name='EdwardHimself' post='1321463' date='Jul 30 2011, 04:42 PM']Don't get me wrong, I love a bit of bartering and i don't like it when people refuse to take even a small amount off it. In fact I started off at about £1200, which then got negotiated down to £1100. Fine. But £500? That's just an insult.[/quote] Some people will take the mickey, however, like I said offers are a starting point of negotiation and communication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 [quote name='The_D' post='1321399' date='Jul 30 2011, 04:03 PM']Another guy wanted ME to go 10 miles down the road and meet him so he could buy it off me... and why would I do that you plumb?[/quote] Because the guy doesn't have a way to get to you? Or wants the car but can't afford insurance to drive it home so needs you to plonk it on his drive? I wouldn't though, could be dodgey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 [quote name='The_D' post='1321399' date='Jul 30 2011, 04:03 PM']...Another guy wanted ME to go 10 miles down the road and meet him so he could buy it off me... and why would I do that you plumb?[/quote] Doesn't seem too out of order - you could have taken it for a test drive back to yours and if he didn't want it he could walk home. On the other hand, if he'd asked you to pick him up a pizza on your way over then decided not to buy the car once he'd seen it, then I'd be suspicious and probably a bit narked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 (edited) [quote name='kjm' post='1321441' date='Jul 30 2011, 04:27 PM']depends on what is done on setup and adjustments are made during services are they not and parts are replaced if required during a proper setup if required. intonation may need setting, nut may need filing to suit, there is more involved then tweaking a neck and adjusting saddles sorry but guess we will have to agree to disagree[/quote] Now I think this is a serious point and possibly the route of both bass and car buying troubles. If Im selling something and look at the market value (another can of worms I know) but for arguments sake lets say Im selling my 2002 Ray, I guess current value would be £700-850 so in my mind any advertised for the upper price should be mint,cased and setup well (to your terms if you like of nut being right no bad frets etc) after that any negatives should then be deducted from there, so unless its advertised as needs a setup/strings (some are which is fair enough) I take that as its already good maybe not my taste but no issues as such. What many sellers do is start at the top then wait to get some interest and be knocked down on any issues. All of my basses have stayed put for years never needing any work other than a seasonal truss tweak or an action adjustment due to my changing preference, Even the Ray 5 can take a gauge change without fuss. Many people seam to go on as if these full setups need doing every five minutes? Edited July 30, 2011 by stingrayPete1977 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjm Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1321552' date='Jul 30 2011, 06:27 PM']Now I think this is a serious point and possibly the route of both bass and car buying troubles. If Im selling something and look at the market value (another can of worms I know) but for arguments sake lets say Im selling my 2002 Ray, I guess current value would be £700-850 so in my mind any advertised for the upper price should be mint,cased and setup well (to your terms if you like of nut being right no bad frets etc) after that any negatives should then be deducted from there, so unless its advertised as needs a setup/strings (some are which is fair enough) I take that as its already good maybe not my taste but no issues as such. What many sellers do is start at the top then wait to get some interest and be knocked down on any issues. All of my basses have stayed put for years never needing any work other than a seasonal truss tweak or an action adjustment due to my changing preference, Even the Ray 5 can take a gauge change without fuss. Many people seam to go on as if these full setups need doing every five minutes?[/quote] I,m with you on last point a good setup should last years ,and totally agree on items at top of price bracket should come with no issues whatsoever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Not just me then kjm I was starting to wonder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Alsatian Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 (edited) I don't mind people making an offer unless I've absolutely reached the lowest I'll go for an item (I'll state so in the description) but the ones that get me are "What's the lowest you'll accept for it?". That's not how it works! I usually reply with "Its current price. What's the highest you can afford?". Lowballers get a polite "I wish you luck in finding a <item> for £<their offer>.". Edited July 31, 2011 by Green Alsatian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 [quote name='neepheid' post='1321185' date='Jul 30 2011, 11:33 AM']But the main thing that ticks me off is that some people seem to think that I'll pay their postage for them. They can get poked, I'm not operating a charity here. Postage is a separate consideration. If I put something up at £100 + postage then the total price will not be £100, because that means I get £100 - postage. I don't see this as haggling, I see it as taking the mick.[/quote] I don't see a problem with that-it's just another bargaining point. If you're advertising something for £100,some people will offer you £90 others will offer to pay full whack if you throw in the postage. Fair enough,if you ask me. I think bartering for a better price,or at least a good middle ground,is fine and to be expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbass4k Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Why do people take these things so personally. If you have an absolute lowest you'll accept and any offer under that will offend you, then just ask that price and say no offers. THEN you have a legitimate grievance, don't get offended because someone hasn't psychically guessed the price you actualy want for it. If you take offers, then expect some to be stupidly low, don't ask don't get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 (edited) Yeah if it's £100 + £10 postage, offering them £90 + £10 postage or £100 + free postage is the same thing. And 90% of the time postage costs less than the advertised price. It's like asking someone to chuck in a case and a screeen protector when you're getting a phone, it's just business. I always haggle without fail if there is room to haggle, one of the reasons I tend to shop for food at markets and not supermarkets, the foods better and it ends up cheaper after a bit of haggling the prices down/ getting extras chucked in. Even if it's an extra few tomatos in the bag for free, it adds up. Edited July 31, 2011 by Ross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1321171' date='Jul 30 2011, 11:13 AM']Also I have said this before but not everyone is clued up on every make/model price wise so ignoring the very stupid offers something like an offer of £800 for my natural Ray doesn't sound too bad yet its not even half what I would want for it if I sold it, See what I mean?[/quote] A offer is only "low" if someone else if someone else puts in a higher one. If I offer you for £1000 for your supposed £2000 bass and thats the only offer you get after weeks of advertising it that is what its worth. Also offers give you options - there might circumstances where someone would be glad of selling quickly at well below what they might hold out for if time wasn't an issue. I really have no clue as why someone would be "annoyed" or "insulted" by a low offer provided the offerer is seriously interested and has the readies to seal the deal quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademan_98 Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 This debate seems always to break down into two camps Those who like the banter and grin at the offers and those who take offence I'm in the former as I like to haggle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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