Power amps and Epifani cabs...

[karlbbb]

Hey guys. In about a month, I'm off to sea for 4 months (work) and when I get back around July I'm hoping to get myself a new bass and rig together.

The plan is to get a DHA VT2 Bass Rack Mount pre-amp, and hook it up to a power amp (and chuck a tuner in the rack for good measure). I was just wondering if anyone could give me advice with which power amps would be best suitable, and any to avoid? I'm not after a stupid amount of power (I'm not even in a band let alone a gigging band, but would like the option once I've finished my training and got some free time), but enough that I could easily play up to a medium sized gig without having to buy any new gear!


I was also thinking of the cab to buy, and a lot of people on BC seem to be very happy with their Epifani cabs! I think a UL310 would be most suitable as, again, I'm not after a massive 810 Ampeg rig. I was wondering if anyone would be able to offer me any advice on where to pick them up/price range etc.


Many thanks in advance, Karl.

[Toasted]

Karl,

First off - good luck at sea!

Secondly, I've never heard anyone say a bad word about the QSC poweramps - and as luck would have it for you there's one of their flagship (ho ho ho a nautical pun!) models - a PLX 2 for sale by out very own Nice Guy Homer in the classifieds right now.

Best, Joe.

[niceguyhomer]

Thanks Joe - and only 15 minutes from Wigan

[karlbbb]

[quote name='niceguyhomer' post='150239' date='Mar 3 2008, 11:46 AM']Thanks Joe - and only 15 minutes from Wigan [/quote]

Ah typical, I don't actually have much in the way of spare cash 'till I get back from sea. I'm just hoping to get some ideas, or a final "plan" down ready for when I get back from sea (it will also keep me going if I'm not enjoying my time on ship!).

[obbm]

+1 for QSC. I ran a QSC PLX1602 bridged into a UL310 for a year without problem. It was excellent.

[jacko]

[quote name='obbm' post='150251' date='Mar 3 2008, 12:04 PM']+1 for QSC. I ran a QSC PLX1602 bridged into a UL310 for a year without problem. It was excellent.[/quote]

and another. I'm running a plx 2402. 700watts/channel into 4 ohms. 2400 into a 4ohm bridged load. just about enough to keep up with my rhythm guitarists 15w orange tiny terror

[steve-soar]

Have a good time away and while you're there think about the Crown XTi 1000, 1400watts @ 4 ohms. I run mine out of channel one into my first cab, then daisy chained into the second cab, this is in bridge mode at 4 ohms and gives me 1400w, ie loads of headroom. The best part is that they are made in the USA, weigh 17 lbs and you can pick them up for as little as £300.
Having said that, I'd still pay the extra for Niceguyhomers amp.

[gilmour]

I've heard that the Epifani stuff doesn't sound so good with Valve pre/power amps.

Is that the case, do any of you run an Epi with a vlave amp?

[jacko]

[quote name='steve-soar' post='150388' date='Mar 3 2008, 03:17 PM']I run mine out of channel one into my first cab, then daisy chained into the second cab, this is in bridge mode at 4 ohms and gives me 1400w, ie loads of headroom.[/quote]

Are you sure that's bridged? Sounds more like you're running 2 cabs in parallel presenting the amp with a 2 ohm load. With the QSC, you need a 'special' 1+/2+ speakon cable (and a switch thrown)

[obbm]

[quote name='gilmour' post='150395' date='Mar 3 2008, 03:27 PM']I've heard that the Epifani stuff doesn't sound so good with Valve pre/power amps.

Is that the case, do any of you run an Epi with a vlave amp?[/quote]

It's not a matter of not sounding so good, they are not designed to work with low damping factor amps. They are short throw speakers designed for use with amps with a high damping factor and consequently tigh control, which valve amps can't do.

Last year I asked Epi about using their cabs with a valve head. This was the response.

[quote]To answer your question about the speakers they are always custom made to our specs, that’s why they sound different. In order to use them with tubes they would have to be made differently. Tube amps generally have a different sound fat and round but not necessarily as responsive. The NYC cabs were not made for tubes either[/quote]

.

[steve-soar]

[quote name='jacko' post='150396' date='Mar 3 2008, 03:30 PM']Are you sure that's bridged? Sounds more like you're running 2 cabs in parallel presenting the amp with a 2 ohm load. With the QSC, you need a 'special' 1+/2+ speakon cable (and a switch thrown)[/quote]
Hi Jacko, the cabs are 8 ohms, each so that gives the amp a 4 ohm load to power.I've tried running the amp in stereo, so that each cab gets 500w each but to my ears it sounds more distorted and makes the amp go into clipping a lot sooner.
If anyone has a more effective way I can hook it all up then get in touch but I know Kev(6stringbassist)run the amp and cabs like this when they used to belong to him and I don't think he had any problems.
Cheers Steve.

[jacko]

[quote name='steve-soar' post='150422' date='Mar 3 2008, 04:03 PM']Hi Jacko, the cabs are 8 ohms, each so that gives the amp a 4 ohm load to power.I've tried running the amp in stereo, so that each cab gets 500w each but to my ears it sounds more distorted and makes the amp go into clipping a lot sooner.
If anyone has a more effective way I can hook it all up then get in touch but I know Kev(6stringbassist)run the amp and cabs like this when they used to belong to him and I don't think he had any problems.
Cheers Steve.[/quote]

Just had a look at the crown manual. The Menu option to set bridge mode looks alot easier than flicking dipswitches on the back of the qsc. Wiring is the same though - either a 1+ 2+ speakon or +/_ banana plugs from the centre binding posts.

[Owen]

Whatever you get make sure you can live with the sound of the fans. Some amps have loud fans, some have quiet ones.

[gilmour]

[quote name='obbm' post='150404' date='Mar 3 2008, 03:39 PM']It's not a matter of not sounding so good, they are not designed to work with low damping factor amps. They are short throw speakers designed for use with amps with a high damping factor and consequently tigh control, which valve amps can't do.[/quote]

Interesting, Thanks OBBM. Just thought it was an important point to note as karlbbb is thinking about a DHA Preamp (IIRC all DHA stuff is Valve driven) with an Epi cab.

[Dood]

[quote name='owen' post='150438' date='Mar 3 2008, 04:17 PM']Whatever you get make sure you can live with the sound of the fans. Some amps have loud fans, some have quiet ones.[/quote]


In general, but not all cases.. you will find that the higher powered poweramps will have noisier fans. The reason is simple. Higher power outputs create higher heat output from the poweramp sections. You either run small fans faster (and noisier) or you run larger fans, that by nature have more surface area and hence.. are noisier. They still have to dissipate more heat than a smaller amp.

Look at D-Class amplification, as a 500W amp in comparison to an AB-Class 500W amp will need much less forced air cooling. Indeed my F1 has what appears to be a 5cm fan that is yet to come on lol lol

[obbm]

[quote name='gilmour' post='150456' date='Mar 3 2008, 04:29 PM']Interesting, Thanks OBBM. Just thought it was an important point to note as karlbbb is thinking about a DHA Preamp (IIRC all DHA stuff is Valve driven) with an Epi cab.[/quote]

No, no, no!!!! Valve pre-amps are fine. I used an Alembic F1X and a BBE BMAX-T with a QSC and the UL310. You mustn't use Epi cabs with valve power amps or all-valve heads.

[gilmour]

[quote name='obbm' post='150462' date='Mar 3 2008, 04:36 PM']No, no, no!!!! Valve pre-amps are fine. I used an Alembic F1X and a BBE BMAX-T with a QSC and the UL310. You mustn't use Epi cabs with valve power amps or all-valve heads.[/quote]

Right Got it - I'll consider myself told!

I was thinking that surely a pre would be fine.

[karlbbb]

I must thank you all for the input! It was interesting reading about the Epi/all valve head.

While it would be ok with just a valve pre-amp, does anyone have any suggestions to decent cabs? I'd be happy with a 410 (I'm only young and have plenty of lifting in me yet!) so weight isn't too much of an issue. It can't be too expensive though

[gilmour]

I hope I haven't confused things, from what OBBM says, the valve pre is fine with the EPi, but make sure it isn't a valve Power Amp (if you go for the Epi)

Cabs Wise there's some bargain here:

These two are in the For Sale section, and IMHO both are great cabs representing great value for money, leaving plenty of money for your DHA and Power amp
[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=12211"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=12211[/url]

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=7130"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=7130[/url]

[peety]

Karl if your young and have plenty of lifting in you i have a warwick 611 pro, which as i am not young and have no lifting in me have had to replace with 2 warwick neos, have always found warwicks great value for money it's a great cab but my poor old back won't take any more, in wigan myself let me know if it's of any interest there could be a bargain to be had.


[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=14563"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=14563[/url]


cheers steve

[karlbbb]

[quote name='peety' post='150512' date='Mar 3 2008, 05:47 PM']Karl if your young and have plenty of lifting in you i have a warwick 611 pro, which as i am not young and have no lifting in me have had to replace with 2 warwick neos, have always found warwicks great value for money it's a great cab but my poor old back won't take any more, in wigan myself let me know if it's of any interest there could be a bargain to be had.


[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=14563"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=14563[/url]


cheers steve[/quote]


Ah bloody hell! Another bargain, right down the road and I can't bloody afford it! It's gonna be the end of July/early August when I start seriously looking (my car needs a service, new clutch and 4 new tyres when I get back too, along with another years rip-off insurance 'coz I'm under 25!). You have no idea how much this is killing me, I like the look of both the Mesa and the Warwick cabs. Gah. GAH!

[karlbbb]

[quote name='gilmour' post='150506' date='Mar 3 2008, 05:36 PM']I hope I haven't confused things, from what OBBM says, the valve pre is fine with the EPi, but make sure it isn't a valve Power Amp (if you go for the Epi)

Cabs Wise there's some bargain here:

These two are in the For Sale section, and IMHO both are great cabs representing great value for money, leaving plenty of money for your DHA and Power amp
[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=12211"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=12211[/url]

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=7130"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=7130[/url][/quote]

Nah mate, you haven't confused me! I was just looking for alternatives to the Epi cab, as I might not easily be able to get hold of one? Like I say, it's going to be summer when I look, I'm just hoping to get the plan sorted in my head!


Thanks again to everyone for suggestions, and if you have more, chuck them at me!
Cheers, Karl.

[gilmour]

Good good,

the only person I confused was myself!

There's always loads of baragains to be had here (everyone changes their equipment sooo often) and I'm sure will be in August to. If money is an issue, do 2nd hand, you'll pick up a bargain, probably a head rather than seperate pre and power amp will be cheaper.

[Welshbassist]

Trust me, you'll NEVER get a plan sorted in your head. It's Basschat's fault!

[karlbbb]

[quote name='Welshbassist' post='150719' date='Mar 3 2008, 10:27 PM']Trust me, you'll NEVER get a plan sorted in your head. It's Basschat's fault![/quote]

Haha yea I know. I could get jealous of your pic too!

Hoping for the Epi cab and an Ibanez SR506 (even though yours is 505).


So far, the plan is:

Ibanez SR506
4u rack with Korg DTR1000, DHA VT2 Rack Mount, some form of power amp.
Then some form of cab.


Decisions, decisions.