Crunch time

[Lfalex v1.1]

As the title says;

Is being in a band now so expensive that you can't afford to play live and not get paid for it?

When you factor in the costs of

Fuel (to gigs and to rehearsals)
Food
Drink
Rehearsal space costs (ok, none if you can find a way to do it for free, but I've never been in a band that has!)

I enjoy being in bands and playing live, I don't even care about not being paid to "work" (Ars Gratia Artis and all that), but the costs of simply keeping a band up and running are becoming ruinous if you're not getting paid.
I'm finding that not (currently) being in a band is saving me about £40/£50 a week... And I do begrudge paying out the thick end of £2.5k a year for no return.
Most of the outlay is in petrol costs to and from rehearsal and gigs. The rest is rehearsal cost itself.

I'm assuming that this will apply primarily to originals bands, for I'd want to be paid the going rate to play anyone else's music (covers/functions etc.), and that's really not my scene at all...

What say you, BassChatters?

[Gunsfreddy2003]

Going through exactly the same myself right now!

We do have free rehearsal space which helps but that is in Bristol and so an 80 mile round trip for me to go to rehearsals and then the same again if gigs are in Bristol too.

Not sure that it is worth playing gigs when effectively you are paying to play.

Seems to be the perpetual problem when choosing to play originals over covers though.

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='1246112' date='May 26 2011, 07:26 PM']As the title says;

Is being in a band now so expensive that you can't afford to play live and not get paid for it?

When you factor in the costs of

Fuel (to gigs and to rehearsals)
Food
Drink
Rehearsal space costs (ok, none if you can find a way to do it for free, but I've never been in a band that has!)

I enjoy being in bands and playing live, I don't even care about not being paid to "work" (Ars Gratia Artis and all that), but the costs of simply keeping a band up and running are becoming ruinous if you're not getting paid.
I'm finding that not (currently) being in a band is saving me about £40/£50 a week... And I do begrudge paying out the thick end of £2.5k a year for no return.
Most of the outlay is in petrol costs to and from rehearsal and gigs. The rest is rehearsal cost itself.

I'm assuming that this will apply primarily to originals bands, for I'd want to be paid the going rate to play anyone else's music (covers/functions etc.), and that's really not my scene at all...

What say you, BassChatters?[/quote]

[arthurhenry]

It's getting too costly even when you do get paid! Fuel costs have gone up, but some venues are paying less than they were and us mugs keep doing the gigs because we just want to play!

[ahpook]

there are more costly hobbies.

[lojo]

You could scrub food and drink off your list if your carefull, eat before/after or take packed lunch, and drink water when out

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='ahpook' post='1246284' date='May 26 2011, 09:30 PM']there are more costly hobbies.[/quote]

Precisely.

Try talking to someone who's a reasonably seriously angler ... or bird watcher ... or golf player ... or mountain biker ... etc.

Hobbies and pastimes tend to absorb time and money.

I get paid (in a covers band) to play pubs in West London. The money barely covers my basic expenses - I doubt it will ever pay for any of my basses. That's OK, I'm not doing this to make a profit, or even to break even.

I'm doing this because it's a shed-load more fun than anything else I might be spending (or wasting) my money on.

Apart from cocaine and Russian call girls, of course.

[Truckstop]

Packed Lunch #Tigerblood#win!

Truckstop

[Heathy]

[quote name='ahpook' post='1246284' date='May 26 2011, 09:30 PM']there are more costly hobbies.[/quote]

+1

Being in a band is my golf.

I wonder what my handicap would be...

[Bloodaxe]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='1246112' date='May 26 2011, 07:26 PM']I enjoy being in bands and playing live[/quote]
So do I.
[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='1246112' date='May 26 2011, 07:26 PM'], I don't even care about not being paid to "work" (Ars Gratia Artis and all that), ...[/quote]
Bugger that! I'm damned if I'm contributing to someone else's profits without getting a cut.

If it's a not-for profit event, I'll consider it though.

Pete.

[3below]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='1246311' date='May 26 2011, 09:54 PM']Apart from cocaine and Russian call girls, of course.[/quote]

I am told that these also cost unless you are a German insurer - [url="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/19/sex-party-reward-german-salesmen"]Guardian[/url]

Band all adds up these days, however most of the time it is fun.

[edit - must proof read doh!]

Edited May 26, 2011 by 3below

[Ed_S]

To my mind, I have a decent job and can afford to pay what little it costs to rehearse and gig, so if it's a choice between being in a band and not, I'll be the one up on stage. My band agreed a long time ago that we'd prefer to play to a full room than cover costs, so we rarely charge unless forced to by a venue.

[jezzaboy]

[quote name='ahpook' post='1246284' date='May 26 2011, 09:30 PM']there are more costly hobbies.[/quote]


Couldn`t agree more. I used to ride motorcycles and that was way more costly along with the risk of coping my whack on every mad blast. Having said that, I don`t spend 40 quid a week to do it and play in a covers band getting about £50 a gig. But I would do it for nothing as playing gigs is my only vice and I love doing it.

Jez

[Musicman20]

My new band splits the money between three and we have a free practice space...the drummers sound proofed garage.

I've lost a lot before, but this band always makes me money.

Covers bands should ALWAYS be paid, and so should 90%
of originals bands, but this isn't the way things work

[Lozz196]

Think of it this way, if you said to a golfer, snooker player, sunday league footballer etc, that a couple of times a month they`d get to do their hobby in front of a (hopefully) appreciative audience, and get paid between £50 & £100, well I`m sure they`d be quite happy.

We`re actually quite fortunate really, that our hobby enables us to get appreciation from people who in general don`t participate in the hobby, and, we can also get a few quid out of it too. I know that with practices, petrol, food etc we just about break even, but from what I hear from snooker players that I work with, well their hobby seems to be only outlay, unless they are ood enough to win a tournament.

In my last band, we gigged about twice a month, and once it split, I certainly noticed the drop in money in my pocket - but maybe thats cos I don`t drink, so actually kept my gigging money, instead of giving it straight back to the venue who had just paid me

[stingrayPete1977]

Like others have said it's my hobby and the amount I have spent on gear alone would take ages to get back at the £50 a gig minus costs anyway, You can't take it with you.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Lozz196' post='1246381' date='May 26 2011, 10:37 PM']Think of it this way, if you said to a golfer, snooker player, sunday league footballer etc, that a couple of times a month they`d get to do their hobby in front of a (hopefully) appreciative audience, and get paid between £50 & £100, well I`m sure they`d be quite happy.

We`re actually quite fortunate really, that our hobby enables us to get appreciation from people who in general don`t participate in the hobby, and, we can also get a few quid out of it too. I know that with practices, petrol, food etc we just about break even, but from what I hear from snooker players that I work with, well their hobby seems to be only outlay, unless they are ood enough to win a tournament.

In my last band, we gigged about twice a month, and once it split, I certainly noticed the drop in money in my pocket - but maybe thats cos I don`t drink, so actually kept my gigging money, instead of giving it straight back to the venue who had just paid me [/quote]
Same here maybe just the one pint and I have been at the cash point more since leaving the function band in march I'm enjoying the originals bands right now although if they go quiet I have a few seeds planted for paying gigs

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='ahpook' post='1246284' date='May 26 2011, 09:30 PM']there are more costly hobbies.[/quote]

And that's why I'm not partaking of them.

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='1246311' date='May 26 2011, 09:54 PM']Precisely...
...I get paid (in a covers band) to play pubs in West London. The money barely covers my basic expenses - I doubt it will ever pay for any of my basses. That's OK, I'm not doing this to make a profit, or even to break even.[/quote]

I don't expect to re-coup on the outlay on the instruments, nor make a profit, but it's just like pouring money into a big hole at the moment.

[quote name='Ed_S' post='1246365' date='May 26 2011, 10:22 PM']To my mind, I have a decent job and can afford to pay what little it costs to rehearse and gig, so if it's a choice between being in a band and not, I'll be the one up on stage. My band agreed a long time ago that we'd prefer to play to a full room than cover costs, so we rarely charge unless forced to by a venue.[/quote]

I don't have such a "decent" job, and I can't afford it. Hence the thread.


[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1246397' date='May 26 2011, 10:48 PM']Like others have said it's my hobby and the amount I have spent on gear alone would take ages to get back at the £50 a gig minus costs anyway, You can't take it with you.[/quote]

I've never even been paid a tenner for a gig. The sort of music I play doesn't get paid like that, but I fail to see why I should have to play stuff I don't want to (functions/covers). Fine, if it were a bread-winning job, I'd have to do it. Right now I have the ability and the gear but can't afford the continual and substantial drain on resources that rehearsal and gigging represent.
As for food and drink, I was only talking about a burger and a coke or a single beer, but that still stacks up to nearly £400 per annum if you play once a week. Add £2.5k for rehearsal / associated travel and £500 for gig-related travel, et [i]voila[/i] £3.4k a year to rehearse and play once a week. Based on there being no financial return, it's a cost I can no longer afford.
Nice. Now we're turning into a hobby for the well-heeled only. Never thought I'd live to see the day.

[Rich]

My band gets fairly well paid for gigs but once we've covered rehearsal costs and split the balance 13 ways it's never going to pay for my kit. I guess it just about covers my strings and goes a little way towards fuel and that's enough for me. I'm just thankful to be able to play at all, and to have such a great bunch of people to do it with.

[Evil Undead]

I used to spend more money per week on cigarettes. Now I've got a much healthier and more fun hobby, I don't mind shelling out a bit for it here and there

[Conan]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='1246583' date='May 27 2011, 07:36 AM']I've never even been paid a tenner for a gig. The sort of music I play doesn't get paid like that, but I fail to see why I should have to play stuff I don't want to (functions/covers). ....Based on there being no financial return, it's a cost I can no longer afford.
Nice. Now we're turning into a hobby for the well-heeled only. Never thought I'd live to see the day.[/quote]

Sounds like you have a dilemma then. This is why a lot of musicians in original bands also play in cover bands. One finances the other as it were.

If you refuse to milk the cash cow then where else are you going to get the money to cover your losses in the original band? Surely if they are good enough and you play at carefully selected venues you can expect to be paid?

Other than that, you are stuck in a cycle that has no end and no way out.

Don't shoot me, I'm only the messenger!

[wulf]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='1246583' date='May 27 2011, 06:36 AM']I've never even been paid a tenner for a gig. The sort of music I play doesn't get paid like that, but I fail to see why I should have to play stuff I don't want to (functions/covers)...[/quote]
If you choose to play anti-commercial music then you either have to supplement that by a day job or by playing other music which does attract some income. Or perhaps you are missing opportunities to either reduce expenses or get some income.

It sounds like you are in a gap at the moment, so perhaps your next project might explore a lower cost set up. For example, I don't make much from my current main band, a small folky trio called [i]Peter and the Wulf[/i], but costs are also very minimal because all the members are fairly local, there aren't many of us and we can rehearse round each others houses.

Wulf

[Conan]

Isn't it about time we had a few of the purists and pros jump in to tell us how wrong, misguided and subversive we are for playing for nothing or next to nothing?

[Conan]

[quote name='wulf' post='1246599' date='May 27 2011, 08:05 AM']If you choose to play anti-commercial music then you either have to supplement that by a day job or by playing other music which does attract some income. Or perhaps you are missing opportunities to either reduce expenses or get some income.[/quote]

That's what I was trying to say, but phrased much better!

[Conan]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='1246112' date='May 26 2011, 07:26 PM']As the title says;

Is being in [i][b]MY[/b][/i] band now so expensive that I can't afford to play live and not get paid for it?[/quote]

I think that is what you meant to say....

Edited May 27, 2011 by Conan

[lojo]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='1246583' date='May 27 2011, 07:36 AM']I've never even been paid a tenner for a gig. The sort of music I play doesn't get paid like that, but I fail to see why I should have to play stuff I don't want to (functions/covers). Fine, if it were a bread-winning job, I'd have to do it. Right now I have the ability and the gear but can't afford the continual and substantial drain on resources that rehearsal and gigging represent.
As for food and drink, I was only talking about a burger and a coke or a single beer, but that still stacks up to nearly £400 per annum if you play once a week. Add £2.5k for rehearsal / associated travel and £500 for gig-related travel, et [i]voila[/i] £3.4k a year to rehearse and play once a week. Based on there being no financial return, it's a cost I can no longer afford.
Nice. Now we're turning into a hobby for the well-heeled only. Never thought I'd live to see the day.[/quote]


Re the well heeled comment, every hobby is, its all relative, Id love to go jet skiing every day, but I can't afford to, but also their are people in the world who see my living room with its TV and Wii as something they would love to have just for one day a year

Don't get bitter, make some choices, if you cant afford this band or think they are throwing money away, leave or make some suggestions about saving, perhaps rehearse / write acoustically in someone's place every other practice etc

I know someone made a joke about "packed lunch", but seriously it amazes me the amount of people who live from week to week with no cash, but they blow money on packaged sandwiches and expensive drinks all the time, you can save a fortune alone each year, just being sensible here, if anyone laughs are makes jokes, they are not your mate if they understand your cashflow issues

Edited May 27, 2011 by lojo