Theory and Reading Poll

[xilddx]

I know it's contentious, I know we've had these discussions many times, but I don't think there's been a poll like this. I hope I've designed it well enough, any suggestions to improve it are welcome.

[purpleblob]

I don't read but I really wish I could. Problem is I've not really got any major need to read except for my own interest. With regards theory I taught myself theory and know fair amount but I also wish I knew more.

[BottomEndian]

IBTL










Nah, just kidding.

For the second question, I chose "I know some theory and I wish I knew a lot more", but it's a very subjective answer. Compared to many (probably most, to be honest) I know loads of theory, so they'd probably put me in the top bracket, but I'm [i]aware[/i] of the reams and reams of advanced stuff I've barely scraped the surface of, so I can't in all conscience put myself at the top.

[xilddx]

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='1240852' date='May 22 2011, 09:23 PM']For the second question, I chose "I know some theory and I wish I knew a lot more", but it's a very subjective answer. Compared to many (probably most, to be honest) I know loads of theory, so they'd probably put me in the top bracket, but I'm [i]aware[/i] of the reams and reams of advanced stuff I've barely scraped the surface of, so I can't in all conscience put myself at the top.[/quote]
Yep, it can only be subjective in that respect, it's about how you feel in this case, because that's what is important. Cheers.

[stingrayPete1977]

There is always more to learn as far as theory is concerned does anyone claim to know everything? The problem/joy of it is every door you open leads to three more so sometimes you feel like you are going backwards until you take stock and think about what you have learnt every now and again

[wateroftyne]

I don't read, and don't feel I need to.

I know some theory and it's enough for what I need.

[thepurpleblob]

I feel like you made a bit of a jump between some theory and excellent. I think my theory knowledge is pretty good but it's not top drawer stuff. I know enough to know what I don't know if you like.

I'll just add my $00.02 to this. If you don't read and/or you have crap theory knowledge - do something about it. Trust me, the effort you make will pay back many time over. It's like a lot of things in music - you have to resist looking for a one-to-one relationship between a skill and its use. Being a musician is about pulling things from different places in a way that almost defies explanation.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Johnston' post='1240870' date='May 22 2011, 09:30 PM']You forgot the I'm learning to read but it's of absolutely no use to me option [/quote]
I would of gone for that too It's still good and gets the learning bit of your brain warmed up for some theory at the same time.

[BassBus]

the music I play in I just play by ear and everyone seems happy with that. I would feel too constricted if I had to play exactly what was written. I'd want to go off and improvise all the time. I like the freedom of ear playing, if that sounds right.

[thepurpleblob]

[quote name='BassBus' post='1240886' date='May 22 2011, 09:43 PM']the music I play in I just play by ear and everyone seems happy with that. I would feel too constricted if I had to play exactly what was written. I'd want to go off and improvise all the time. I like the freedom of ear playing, if that sounds right.[/quote]

But I don't think that's the point. Being able to read just mean that you know what somebody intended for that piece of music. There's no law that says you have to play it like that. It also means that you can never take those gigs where they stick the dots in front of you and you have to nail it first time. Me neither by the way (my sight reading isn't good enough). Reading is just another skill - it doesn't have to totally change the way you play.

[Doddy]

[quote name='thepurpleblob' post='1240889' date='May 22 2011, 09:47 PM']Being able to read just mean that you know what somebody intended for that piece of music. There's no law that says you have to play it like that.[/quote]

You do if it's a unison passage.

[skej21]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1240920' date='May 22 2011, 10:06 PM']You do if it's a unison passage.[/quote]

Or if you're providing a specific groove, or playing a signature/recognised bass line (such as lines in 'We Will Rock You') or providing a specific dynamic included to support actors/film/other parts or because the lines are in unusual time changes (such as alternating sub-divisions or time-change-per-bar) or one of the other [i][insert number][/i] reasons why you have to play what's written and can't just blag it.

Edited May 22, 2011 by skej21

[Ed_S]

I got up to grade 7ish (playing) as an orchestral violinist before ditching it and taking up bass. I say 'ish' because I never took any of the exams beyond grade 4 due to my complete hatred of theory, so my yard-stick was just being able to play the higher exam pieces. I could sight-read very well back then, but it only ever made any sense in direct relation to the fingering for a violin, so as soon as I stopped, that was the end of it. These days I have no idea what I'm playing on bass, but the classical training tuned my ear in to such a degree that I really don't feel that I need to; I can hear what's right, what fits, where a progression is going and what my options are for the next note to jump to, and that works just fine for me

[Blademan_98]

I love music.

I don't know half of what I would like too.

I just love learning new things.

Sight reading and theory are great (especially if you don't have an instrument to hand).

I really love the continual discussion on this forum tooooo!

[LawrenceH]

There's a biiig gap between 'sight-reading fluently' and 'reading a bit'! Likewise with the theory actually. I'm in that gap I'd guess, I read fine enough except syncopated rhythms do my head in written down, similarly I have a good working knowledge of (classical) formal harmony, but my jazz knowledge doesn't really get beyond the basics of tritone subs. I could sit down and analyse something like a Parker/Gillespie piece on the written page, but I'd really struggle to pick the changes by ear as those strings of II-V-Is with subs/key changes are just too much for me.

Reading - rarely use it, almost never for bass. Theory - I find it very useful, though mainly as a tool for improving my ear by putting handy labels on types of sounds.

[BigRedX]

When I first started playing more than 35 years ago I started learning to read and theory, but I quickly discovered that for what I wanted to do both were of limited value.

By the time I had learned how to string some chords together on the guitar I was far more interested in writing my own songs than playing other peoples' and besides back then most sheet music of pop or rock songs (what I would have been interested in playing) were arrangements for the piano so what was on the bass clef bore only a passing resemblance to what the bass guitar was playing on the recorded version. Because of this the few times that I wanted to work out a recorded song I did it by ear. It was quicker and more accurate (and everyone I knew at the time who played covers did exactly this).

As for theory, apart from learning a bit a about keys and scales, I haven't really bothered. My song writing is mostly based on what I think sounds good. These days the only rules I follow are "do I like it?" if so it stays, if not I try something else.

[Balcro]

Sorry to feed your addiction, but I'm a bit like Ed_S above, except for violin read 12 years of piano and choir singing, so I have that tuned-in ear and can read music and now tab. So I'm using all three together.
As I don't gig I have no need to concern myself with what the next note will be, I'm just learning a line. I can usually find what fits.......eventually.

Balcro.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='skej21' post='1240931' date='May 22 2011, 10:13 PM']Or if you're providing a specific groove, or playing a signature/recognised bass line (such as lines in 'We Will Rock You') or providing a specific dynamic included to support actors/film/other parts or because the lines are in unusual time changes (such as alternating sub-divisions or time-change-per-bar) or one of the other [i][insert number][/i] reasons why you have to play what's written and can't just blag it.[/quote]
Exhibit A:

[tm486]

[quote name='Ed_S' post='1240980' date='May 22 2011, 10:43 PM']I got up to grade 7ish (playing) as an orchestral violinist before ditching it and taking up bass.

I could sight-read very well back then, but it only ever made any sense in direct relation to the fingering for a violin, so as soon as I stopped, that was the end of it.[/quote]

Same here, I learnt double bass before I ever got a bass guitar and I used to play in a large concert band where I was the only db'er. I often struggled to keep up when they played pieces that older members of the band all knew. After a while I got used to sight reading at speed, and eventually I got fairly good at sight reading whilst transposing, as they rarely had sheet music written for the double bass, which I hated.

Weirdly however, I struggle to sight read for the bass guitar. I generally just transferred everything I learnt on the db across to the bass guitar but I never got used to sight reading with it. I wish I had had a few lessons when I switched, as I think I may have developed some poor techniques.

With regards to theory, I know some but wish i knew more is definitely the right category. Whilst I hated learning it, I would love to be better at it as I am sure that there are whole area's where it could improve my playing.

Interesting thread, first actual poll I have seen on the topic.

Cheers

Tom

Edited May 22, 2011 by tm486

[EssentialTension]

'I can read a bit and I find it useful'

and

'I know some theory and I wish I knew a lot more'.

[dc2009]

I'm an interesting mix (I think) when it comes to reading. I sight read a lot, from guitar pro/powertab type stuff, I use the tab for the fret numbers, and the score for the note duration, reading both simultaneously, this is my favoured way to play anyway.
I can however, read all of the notes from a score, but it takes me time to figure it out from the mnemonics note by note, and I end up committing the piece to memory with hand movements long before I am able to read and play the music by sight. I tend to write frets, or letter versions of the notes, under a score like this.
I can also play to note names, but this is normally only useful when playing with a guitarist who throws me a chord or key.

My theory extends to about 5 basic scales, some very basic chord shapes. I know how keys work, and have some idea of modes, though struggle to implement them. I seriously wish I knew a lot more theory.

[Pete Academy]

Reading and theory knowledge are undoubtedly useful skills, but I still maintain being able to play in time and being able to groove are more important.

[ZMech]

Was on the middle of both scales, but am gonna try and tackle that this summer. Have stolen my dad's old keyboard and a load of books, which should hopefully improve both my reading and theory!

I don't[b] need[/b] to read, closest I get is reading the chord sheets, but it would mean I better know the melody that I'm playing under so I can compliment it better.

Edited May 23, 2011 by ZMech

[Fat Rich]

I can work out a sheet of notation but can only sight read very simple lines.

I know [i]about[/i] quite a lot of theory but haven't taken the time to learn it properly so I'm not really getting the benefits. I need to sit down and work through it thoroughly and hopefully it'll become second nature.

On the plus side, the reading and theory I have worked on has helped to develop my ear so I can work things out pretty easily.... it's also got me playing and listening to different things than if I was just working out songs.

[Doddy]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='1241164' date='May 23 2011, 08:28 AM']Reading and theory knowledge are undoubtedly useful skills, but I still maintain being able to play in time and being able to groove are more important.[/quote]

But,if you play a B over a C7 chord,it doesn't matter how in time you are-it'll sound bad.