xgsjx Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 [quote name='Truckstop' post='1229152' date='May 12 2011, 06:43 PM']Case in point, I have a 350w 8ohm head and a 2x10 8ohm cab. 350w distributed between 2 10" speakers. However, in the neverending pursuit of more volume, I want to add on a 4x10 8ohm cab. So now, 350w of power is being distributed between 2 cabs equally, however, this means that both cabs are receiving 175w. So, in the 2x10 cab, each speaker is recieving 87.5w but in the 4x10 cab, each speaker is recieving only 43.75w. This means that the speakers in the 2x10 are being pushed harder and will distort at a lower volume than the 4x10. So, it's important to make sure that when you are adding an extension cab, you need to make sure that the ohmage ensures equal wattage dispersion and then you make sure that the extension cab can handle the watts being delivered to it. Hope it helps a little and, of course, IME! Truckstop[/quote] Not taking away from any of what Truckstop has said here, as is all sound advice (pardon the pun). The first section above should have been worded more like "I have a 350w 4ohm head and a 2x10 8ohm cab. [b]200w[/b] distributed between 2 10" speakers. However, in the neverending pursuit of more volume, I want to add on a 4x10 8ohm cab. So now, 350w of power is being distributed between 2 cabs equally" If the head was 350w at 8Ω, it would more likely be 5-600w at 4Ω, the rest of your maths was a good lesson tho Sorry if I seem a little pedantic, no offence intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikhay77 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 [quote name='Lozz196' post='1227737' date='May 11 2011, 04:39 PM']Main considerations on this are budget, and type of band. If its a rock band, with two guitars, I`d be dubious about only using a 2x10. There are some fairly light cabs about at the moment, but this of course depends on funds available. Mention that, and the recommendations will come flooding in, no doubt.[/quote] +1.I tried the small compact route.Play in a rock band,2 guitars,usual valve heads and 4x12s.Used mainly 4x10s etc.Bought a MB 121p.I had my reservations after a fairly loud rehearsal.Come to the first gig!Well a good job the tranny was still loaded with my old gear.If your rockin out maybe a couple of 2x10 8ohm cabs or 1x15 and 2x10 coupled with a trusty bullet proof trace head. Punchy and loud. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattB Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 Good god I'm loving this forum! Right - while i'm in the learning mood... In English (becuase you people are actually making sense to a non-techy like me!!) what is the difference (in real world terms) between a single 15" 250w /8 Ohms like: [url="http://www.ashdownmusic.com/bass/detail.asp?section=mag&ID=22"]http://www.ashdownmusic.com/bass/detail.as...n=mag&ID=22[/url] and a 2x10" 250w/8 Ohms like [url="http://www.ashdownmusic.com/bass/detail.asp?section=mag&ID=23"]http://www.ashdownmusic.com/bass/detail.as...n=mag&ID=23[/url] If i was gonna plug a 500w head into one of these as my start for a gigging rig, which would I go with and why? Again - thanks for the great responses you guys have been feeding me thus far. It's an education! Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fudge Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 It cost a few £ a few years ago but I got a MB SA450 and 2x12 Bergs. Fingers crossed this gig will last me years. I did play through an Aguilar head a few months and that did create some serious GAS at the time. Like others have said I definitely don't miss lugging the 4x10 in and of the van and up stairs etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fudge Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 [quote name='MattB' post='1229240' date='May 12 2011, 08:01 PM']Good god I'm loving this forum! Right - while i'm in the learning mood... In English (becuase you people are actually making sense to a non-techy like me!!) what is the difference (in real world terms) between a single 15" 250w /8 Ohms like: [url="http://www.ashdownmusic.com/bass/detail.asp?section=mag&ID=22"]http://www.ashdownmusic.com/bass/detail.as...n=mag&ID=22[/url] and a 2x10" 250w/8 Ohms like [url="http://www.ashdownmusic.com/bass/detail.asp?section=mag&ID=23"]http://www.ashdownmusic.com/bass/detail.as...n=mag&ID=23[/url] If i was gonna plug a 500w head into one of these as my start for a gigging rig, which would I go with and why? Again - thanks for the great responses you guys have been feeding me thus far. It's an education! Matt[/quote] 10's are a bit warmer and rockier I would say. Depends what music you play also. Its all down to preference. Better still would be to plug into both, but then you are back in that lugging loads of gear about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattB Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 [quote name='Mr Fudge' post='1229253' date='May 12 2011, 08:09 PM']It cost a few £ a few years ago but I got a MB SA450 and 2x12 Bergs. Fingers crossed this gig will last me years. I did play through an Aguilar head a few months and that did create some serious GAS at the time. Like others have said I definitely don't miss lugging the 4x10 in and of the van and up stairs etc...[/quote] Ok - what's all this "Gas" people are starting on about? Jeez... just as I'd got the hang of Ohms! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 GAS = Gear Acquisition Syndrome. You see nice gear & start wanting & end up spending all your money on things that you didn't really think of to start with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattB Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 [quote name='xgsjx' post='1229348' date='May 12 2011, 09:41 PM']GAS = Gear Acquisition Syndrome. You see nice gear & start wanting & end up spending all your money on things that you didn't really think of to start with. [/quote] Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 [quote name='MattB' post='1229240' date='May 12 2011, 08:01 PM']In English (becuase you people are actually making sense to a non-techy like me!!) what is the difference (in real world terms) between a single 15" 250w /8 Ohms like: [url="http://www.ashdownmusic.com/bass/detail.asp?section=mag&ID=22"]http://www.ashdownmusic.com/bass/detail.as...n=mag&ID=22[/url] and a 2x10" 250w/8 Ohms like [url="http://www.ashdownmusic.com/bass/detail.asp?section=mag&ID=23"]http://www.ashdownmusic.com/bass/detail.as...n=mag&ID=23[/url] If i was gonna plug a 500w head into one of these as my start for a gigging rig, which would I go with and why?[/quote] Typically, a larger speaker will produce more bass, whereas a gang of smaller speakers will produce more midrange and sound more focused. And larger cabinets usually produce more bass than compact cabinets. But these are generalisations and you really need to try a given cab to find out what it sounds like - some newer designs buck those trends in surprising ways. Also don't be put off by the idea of your sound consisting of more mids than bass frequencies - go try these things out and decide what you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monckyman Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I can heartily recomend the Ashdown ABM500, I`m really starting to be impressed with it. Stick a bit of compression on via a pedal and it sounds massive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckstop Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 [quote name='xgsjx' post='1229216' date='May 12 2011, 07:36 PM']Not taking away from any of what Truckstop has said here, as is all sound advice (pardon the pun). The first section above should have been worded more like "I have a 350w 4ohm head and a 2x10 8ohm cab. [b]200w[/b] distributed between 2 10" speakers. However, in the neverending pursuit of more volume, I want to add on a 4x10 8ohm cab. So now, 350w of power is being distributed between 2 cabs equally" If the head was 350w at 8Ω, it would more likely be 5-600w at 4Ω, the rest of your maths was a good lesson tho Sorry if I seem a little pedantic, no offence intended.[/quote] None taken, thanks for clearing that up for me! Truckstop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patster1969 Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Like Matt has said already, thanks for everyone's info so far - much appreciated. BTW, does anyone have any experience with any of the Line 6 heads or LD combo series? Really like the functions/sound options that my little 110 has & would be interested if anybody has used the bigger brothers? Also really sorry for the next question but how did you come to that calculation xgsjx? I understood the 350W 8ohm head into 2x10 8ohm being 350W, but where did the 350W 4ohm being 200W come from - apologies if this is a really dense question? Cheers Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 For an amp to run 2 8 ohm cabs, it would need to be able to run at a minimum of 4 ohms & your average 4 ohm head puts out @ 60-65% of the overall wattage at 8 ohms. My head is 500w at 4 ohms & 300w at 8. Bare in mind that watts don't have that much an impact on overall volume (it's how much air you're moving & a dozen other things that relates to that). There's a sticky at the top of this section with more info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesrt2004 Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 AMPEG PORTAFLEX PF series are brilliant new micro amps i'd go PF500 then a nice 2x12/4x10/1x15 neo setup (: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I don't know if you already answerd this but what is your budget? What's the formation and music style of your band? Is your drummer a loud one? I could tell you like a Trace'ish sound, is that correct? People are telling you their personal favourits but it would be helpfull for you if we could sugest something apropriate to your needs. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattB Posted May 13, 2011 Author Share Posted May 13, 2011 [quote name='Ghost_Bass' post='1230003' date='May 13 2011, 02:52 PM']I don't know if you already answerd this but what is your budget? What's the formation and music style of your band? Is your drummer a loud one? I could tell you like a Trace'ish sound, is that correct? People are telling you their personal favourits but it would be helpfull for you if we could sugest something apropriate to your needs. Cheers[/quote] I think I did say this earlier (I might be wrong!) but i wanted to keep it under £500 for a 3-piece and occasional 4-piece playing big old Essex pubs and clubs. The 150 Line 6 is just about ok - but everything is on 10 and it's not how I like to run, while the GP12SMX is just way too powerful. Lugging it around it like carrying two humans and i have it on 2 volume so know i need something in between that I can carry around more easily and isn't simply over the top. The guitarist has a bastard-loud Peavey amp that just drowns everything, so i need to push through. Hope that helps. Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 [quote name='Patster1969' post='1229881' date='May 13 2011, 01:06 PM']Like Matt has said already, thanks for everyone's info so far - much appreciated. BTW, does anyone have any experience with any of the Line 6 heads or LD combo series? Really like the functions/sound options that my little 110 has & would be interested if anybody has used the bigger brothers? Also really sorry for the next question but how did you come to that calculation xgsjx? I understood the 350W 8ohm head into 2x10 8ohm being 350W, but where did the 350W 4ohm being 200W come from - apologies if this is a really dense question? Cheers Pat[/quote] When I returned to gigging a few years ago, the first combo I used was a LD300, and it was fine. Lots of sound options, in fact too many for me. It's not the smallest/lightest combo out there (although not too bad for a 1x15"), so I stuck some wheels on it, and it was fine. Plenty loud enough for a 4-piece, really. They're a good buy when they come up (usually around the £200-250 mark), although this is much better - [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ROLAND-D-BASS-115-300WATT-/140545648975?pt=UK_MusicalInstr_Amplifiers_RL&hash=item20b92c694f"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ROLAND-D-BASS-115-30...=item20b92c694f[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 [quote name='MattB' post='1230041' date='May 13 2011, 03:26 PM']I think I did say this earlier (I might be wrong!) but i wanted to keep it under £500 for a 3-piece and occasional 4-piece playing big old Essex pubs and clubs. The 150 Line 6 is just about ok - but everything is on 10 and it's not how I like to run, while the GP12SMX is just way too powerful. Lugging it around it like carrying two humans and i have it on 2 volume so know i need something in between that I can carry around more easily and isn't simply over the top. The guitarist has a bastard-loud Peavey amp that just drowns everything, so i need to push through. Hope that helps. Matt[/quote] Check this out: [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/hartke_lh500.htm"]http://www.thomann.de/gb/hartke_lh500.htm[/url] plus: [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/fender_rumble_112.htm"]http://www.thomann.de/gb/fender_rumble_112.htm[/url] £60 over your budget but worth considering. Maybe you could find a nice and cheap 12" cab in the FS section over here Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattB Posted May 13, 2011 Author Share Posted May 13, 2011 [quote name='Ghost_Bass' post='1230151' date='May 13 2011, 04:59 PM']Check this out: [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/hartke_lh500.htm"]http://www.thomann.de/gb/hartke_lh500.htm[/url] plus: [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/fender_rumble_112.htm"]http://www.thomann.de/gb/fender_rumble_112.htm[/url] £60 over your budget but worth considering. Maybe you could find a nice and cheap 12" cab in the FS section over here Cheers[/quote] oooh. Like the Fender - I don't think a single person has recommended one of those to me yet. Is the single 12" on par with a single 15"? M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 [quote name='MattB' post='1230177' date='May 13 2011, 05:27 PM']....oooh. Like the Fender - I don't think a single person has recommended one of those to me yet....[/quote] That should be telling you something!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 [quote name='chris_b' post='1230190' date='May 13 2011, 05:35 PM']That should be telling you something!![/quote] I've read that the amps had some reliability issues but haven't heard any negatives regarding the cabs... They're Eminnence loaded so they should sound fine even if they haven´t gone all the way with the design... Have got some info on it? I would like to know because i've been thinking about getting one for the rare ocasion where i'll need an extension cab... Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) For the price of the Hartke new, you could get a much better amp 2nd hand (tho it's a good buy if you don't want s/h). Fender aren't known for making decent cabs. Just because it's got an eminence driver in it doesn't make it good. I've got a Garden & that doesn't make me a good Gardener (looks like a rain forest ). Edited to say, what about a self build cab? Leaves you with more pennies to spend on a decent amp. Edited May 13, 2011 by xgsjx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattB Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 Dear all i just wanted to say a massive THANK YOU to everyone who joined in this conversation (and PMed me at various times) - it was a real education for me, and incredibly useful. You'll be glad to hear that I went up to Thurbs place on Sunday and bought the 1x15" Ashdown cab and the 500w head from him. I REALLY was tempted by the 4x10" which had an incredible sound (and anyone thinking about purchasing such a beaut would do well to talk to him pronto) but ultimately I couldn't justify the GAS (see, I'm learning) as it was more than I needed and heavy enough to defeat the object of my task. I've since picked up a bargain on ebay - a 2x10 Ashdown for £70 which looks like it's been dropped off a cliff but I'm assured works a treat and just needs some cosmetic repair. I collect that tomorrow and then have a versative little rig that should eat up any of the gigs I had to roll out the Trace GP12 for. Anyway, I hate people that just use a forum to get what they want and never bother to come back, so... once again, many thanks to you all. Oh, and thanks to Thurbs - he makes a cracking cup of tea. Happy thumping Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Nice one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Hey Matt, that's a good place to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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