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Jambo10

Opinions please.....

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[quote name='Monckyman' post='1206760' date='Apr 21 2011, 09:25 AM']One thing though, I`ve never seen a band with the female singer wearing a jumper/sweatshirt and slacks...Not
MM[/quote]

worked for the Undertones :) (altho no female of course)

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[quote name='bottlebassman' post='1214586' date='Apr 29 2011, 09:25 AM']Your singer should be able to learn and remember some of the lyrics surely? After all, you have to learn and remember the bass lines, yeah?[/quote]

Seeing singers with a lyric sheet on a stand or even holding a book (worse!) always used to get my goat until I had to take over lead vocal duties to keep a band going. I was of the same opinion as you bottlebassman, I've learnt the basslines why can't they learn the lyrics? I still struggle to remember words to 30 odd songs in a 2 setter gig. Sometimes I barely look at the book, some songs I get lost & have to read them (different ones no pattern to it).
Yeah, its a crutch as somebody earlier suggested, I know but I don't get stressed about it. I just keep the book low on a cut down stand like a monitor, have large clear print & a little clip on light for dark stages. I've noticed more pro's using lyric sheets, Robert Plant for example on his electric prom gig, Michael Stipe sometimes too. Keep it low & people don't notice it so much.

Other general comments to Jambo10. Agree with lots of the comments above,
1. Light from above, front side rather than rear where poss. Difficult at some venues i know.
2. Get yer heads up, look at the audience, smile, interact with the rest of the band, look like you are enjoying yourselves.
3. Backing vox & harmonys lift songs. Work on helping singer out on choruses.
4. Material choice, vary pace & tempo of the 1st set, save some slammers for the last few songs. Choose songs you can all do justice to, especially sing. If the singer is struggling it doesn't matter how good the band are.
4. Don't introduce every song, segway some songs together, take it in turns to introduce songs/chat to audience. Share the load & keep it brief.

Your band isn't bad at all but could be loads better (like the rest of us too)

All the best & good luck, it sounds like you will get there as you are willing to work at it!
Cheers,
Norm.

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On the negative side I would say that the Drummer sounds too heavy, every cymbal crash washes over the band (even Bonzo didn't drown out the rest of Zeppelin) and the singers range is a bit one dimentional for the songs you are covering.

On the positive side I would say you can all play well and and the singer stays in tune.

I think you should have a few quiet rehersal,work out some backing vocals and maybe shift the focus of the set towards the songs that the singer seems more comfortable with, then she would open up more and the band would go with her.

Build on your strengths as a band.

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[quote name='Norm' post='1214725' date='Apr 29 2011, 11:23 AM']Seeing singers with a lyric sheet on a stand or even holding a book (worse!) always used to get my goat until I had to take over lead vocal duties to keep a band going. I was of the same opinion as you bottlebassman, I've learnt the basslines why can't they learn the lyrics? I still struggle to remember words to 30 odd songs in a 2 setter gig. Sometimes I barely look at the book, some songs I get lost & have to read them (different ones no pattern to it).
Yeah, its a crutch as somebody earlier suggested, I know but I don't get stressed about it. I just keep the book low on a cut down stand like a monitor, have large clear print & a little clip on light for dark stages. I've noticed more pro's using lyric sheets, Robert Plant for example on his electric prom gig, Michael Stipe sometimes too. Keep it low & people don't notice it so much.

Other general comments to Jambo10. Agree with lots of the comments above,
1. Light from above, front side rather than rear where poss. Difficult at some venues i know.
2. Get yer heads up, look at the audience, smile, interact with the rest of the band, look like you are enjoying yourselves.
3. Backing vox & harmonys lift songs. Work on helping singer out on choruses.
4. Material choice, vary pace & tempo of the 1st set, save some slammers for the last few songs. Choose songs you can all do justice to, especially sing. If the singer is struggling it doesn't matter how good the band are.
4. Don't introduce every song, segway some songs together, take it in turns to introduce songs/chat to audience. Share the load & keep it brief.

Your band isn't bad at all but could be loads better (like the rest of us too)

All the best & good luck, it sounds like you will get there as you are willing to work at it!
Cheers,
Norm.[/quote]
Yeah don't get me wrong our singer uses a music stand for lyrics for some of our songs (particularly the newer stuff we add to the set), I have no problem with that, but not all the songs?

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Like it or not, the lead vocalist is the focal point of the band.

In one of my bands Angel Of Sin, we achieved a lot of success by throwing out about half our songs and concentrating on songs that suit our singer, and that she could sing well. That meant ditching almost all of the punk songs and songs that required very quick vocal delivery. The band is a lot stronger as a result, even though I don't get to jump around like a loon quite as much.

Jon

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Once again guys, thanks for the words.

We have spoken about many of the points that have been raised, to be honest the bulk of decisions come from myself and guitrarist, only because we are willing to put ideas on the floor and not bury heads in the sand. Things like lights, backing vox movement have been talked about and are being rectified. thats why I'm glad that I can ask you guys, for an honest opinion.

I think changes may be afoot!

Edited by Jambo10

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[quote name='Norm' post='1214725' date='Apr 29 2011, 11:23 AM']Seeing singers with a lyric sheet on a stand or even holding a book (worse!) always used to get my goat until I had to take over lead vocal duties to keep a band going. I was of the same opinion as you bottlebassman, I've learnt the basslines why can't they learn the lyrics? I still struggle to remember words to 30 odd songs in a 2 setter gig. Sometimes I barely look at the book, some songs I get lost & have to read them (different ones no pattern to it).
Yeah, its a crutch as somebody earlier suggested, I know but I don't get stressed about it. I just keep the book low on a cut down stand like a monitor, have large clear print & a little clip on light for dark stages. I've noticed more pro's using lyric sheets, Robert Plant for example on his electric prom gig, Michael Stipe sometimes too. Keep it low & people don't notice it so much.

Other general comments to Jambo10. Agree with lots of the comments above,
1. Light from above, front side rather than rear where poss. Difficult at some venues i know.
2. Get yer heads up, look at the audience, smile, interact with the rest of the band, look like you are enjoying yourselves.
3. Backing vox & harmonys lift songs. Work on helping singer out on choruses.
4. Material choice, vary pace & tempo of the 1st set, save some slammers for the last few songs. Choose songs you can all do justice to, especially sing. If the singer is struggling it doesn't matter how good the band are.
4. Don't introduce every song, segway some songs together, take it in turns to introduce songs/chat to audience. Share the load & keep it brief.

Your band isn't bad at all but could be loads better (like the rest of us too)

All the best & good luck, it sounds like you will get there as you are willing to work at it!
Cheers,
Norm.[/quote]

Didn't read this properly last night when I got in, sooooo........
The lights at rear, well as we all know, it depends on ceiling hight, a struggle at that gig, but they normally go as high as possible.
Was out with the guitarist for a few jars and we both agreed we are going to chip in with more vox.
I normally do the setlists and I like to mix it up but clump a few similar together, dance ones etc, so i structure like 3/4 songs rapid fire, no gaps. Then a breather, singer caan give patter etc. Example....we did a short set on sunday night there, we were nearing the end of Take Me Out, now the dancefloor was full, I gestured to the singer to keep going as Are you gonna be my girl was next, she likes to give patter before starting with her tambourine, then obv bass comes in, but the floor was full and I wanted to keep them there, so I wanted to kick right in. But she insisted we stop, give sh*t patter about her tambourine, and we lost them all.
She insists on saying which band we are covering next, no matter how many times I have said "let them figure it out themselves, the punters aren't stupid".
As for the stand, move it to the side?...nope, drop it down a little, nope....don't have the songs you actually know still in the book, nope....double print lyrics so you dont turn pages mid-song, nope.........its just a non willingness to evolve shall we say.
These are just some small examples, which are easily rectified, but there are many many small things adding up, that it is starting to grate with the rest of the band.
Sure, the rest of us aren't perfect by any means, but we WANT to get better, that seems to be the issue.
I don't want it to turn into a singer-bash cos she is a decent person, but patience is wearing thin.
Rant over I think......

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we dont bother with setlists our singer just tells us whats next.its his job to read the crowd.the only down side with this system is he tends to have his faves so the set dosnt get rotated as much as id like

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[quote name='bobbytodd' post='1215547' date='Apr 30 2011, 09:27 AM']we dont bother with setlists our singer just tells us whats next.its his job to read the crowd.the only down side with this system is he tends to have his faves so the set dosnt get rotated as much as id like[/quote]

Our setlists vary on the venue but we have a fair number of songs, about 60, so we like to mix it up.
BUT..we can't just drop one in like your singer does, as our singer would have to fumble through her book to find it!

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[quote name='bobbytodd' post='1215547' date='Apr 30 2011, 09:27 AM']we dont bother with setlists our singer just tells us whats next.its his job to read the crowd.the only down side with this system is he tends to have his faves so the set dosnt get rotated as much as id like[/quote]

Exactly what we do, although we do all tend to have some input. It does rather limit what songs we play though as my singer does rely on lyric sheets for newer songs so we cant just go straight in to them.

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Maybe it's worth getting someone to video your next gig from the back. Wide angle get the whole audience in and the whole band.

Watch it back with the band and get everyone to critique only themselves by writing notes and not speaking out loud.

Then do the same but with people critiqueing each other.

But as I said you can try all sorts of fixes but if you know deep down someone is not into it anymore they need to go.

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Just an update on the singer............

We parted company on sunday, after hyet another gig where there were unfinished sentences, missing lyrics left right and centre, bad attitude and general all round not giving a sh*t about improving the performance, it came to a head after the gig.

Yet more bad feedback from the punters at the break, so enough was enough.
It was a local boozer that we don't want to not get back into again.

We wished her well and no doubt she will find something else that possibly suits her better.


Auditioned a new singer today and she is awesome, a total kick up the arse we need.
Already at this early stage we feel the sound is more fuller, more passion, more energy, and all round....in tune!

Good times round the corner me thinks.......

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[quote name='Thurbs' post='1227153' date='May 11 2011, 09:33 AM']Great news...[/quote]

Yep, its for the best.

It sounds like the new singer has also brought new enthusiasm to the band so its a win win situation.

Good luck.

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Great news, I'm glad it's starting to work out for you. I hope your old singer finds something more suited to her too. It's good to be in a band...but it's [b]great[/b] to be in the [i]right[/i] band :)

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Well done mate, I'm sure it's for the best. It's hard giving people the boot from bands but when it comes down to it a band is only as strong as the weakest link.

Edited by thumbo

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Cheers guys.

You all know that it's no fun playing when you are just going through the motions, well, this has been a good wake up call for all of us.

We have even realised that some of the songs actually have lyrics all the way through now :)

First gig with new singer at start of June, 1 practice in and she has nailed 28 songs already!! Just a few wee niggles, extra chorus here, different outro there, but on the whole........awesome!

Already feels like a world of difference.

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Just seen your vid with the new singer (i assume). I know the vocals are a bit low but i actually preferred the old singers voice. Both good but i thought the old singer had more emotion in her voice.

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If you like her and feel more enthused.. and hopefully that will show on the next gigs..then all win-win, IMO.

Edited by JTUK

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Hope you don't mind, here is the video to the aforementioned gig... [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fgKyJ7OUGE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fgKyJ7OUGE[/url]

I have always wanted to add You Oughta Know to our set if not for the great bass line.

Was your guitarist having a bad night? Some of your clips the guitar sounded off...

Anyway, back to the singer, she seems much more lively on the stage, but no real movement still. I think she has a better voice overall and only a few times was she a bit flat. I think you could benefit from a larger area to play in so you can all move about a bit more.

Movement is something I have been looking at personally and the band as a whole. A good front man/lady will really engage with the audience through the vocals and movement and I try my best to support them. The only one with a good excuse is the drummer, but then our drummer bounces all over the place and it's great!

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[quote name='Thurbs' post='1258764' date='Jun 6 2011, 06:56 PM']...
Anyway, back to the singer, she seems much more lively on the stage, but no real movement still.
...[/quote]

She's just itching to get moving, just needs a bigger stage. She's certainly getting into it and has an infectious attitude.

Nice.

Edited by TimR

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let the girl pick the songs and try to alter the mix of songs to get away from the same vocal delivery/style.

Drummer does well.....but if it were me..I'd be looking to get different versions of these songs ..anything to shake things up and not sound so obvious.... and most of that onus is on the gtr.

Not looking for things to pick on...trying to be constructive

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Thanks for the input guys.

Before this gig we had had only 3 rehearsals, so we were a little anxious beforehand whether we were going to be able to pull this gig off or not.

She started a bit nervy, as we all did, and all the footage was from the first set as the SD card ran out....DOH!!...without you all going "yehyeh whatever", we were far more relaxed in the second half, more movement from everybody and the singer got into her groove more.

Guitarist had new amp, never even rehearsed with it, so was still trying to find his levels as the first set went on.

It is a little crammed in that place to be honest, stuck in the corner, but it was so good to get the first gig out of the way with her. By the end we were shattered, her energy and passion as the night went on rubbed off on the rest of us and we lifted are game no end, a total eye opener as far as I am concerned.

Hopefully get some more footage over the next few gigs, things will be tweaked, different songs added and others dropped, but on the whole....I am enjoying being in the band again.

Cheers guys.

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