Neck Dead Spots

[TPJ]

I bought a brand new EB MM a few weeks back, all black with a maple neck. I've noticed a few dead spots up and down the neck, in particular on the G string between about d (7th fret) and f (10th fret), and g (3rd fret) on the low E string. Are there known issues with MM's about sustain and dead spots? I'm not too worried just yet as it has the original strings from purchase on it so I'll swap them out this weekend before a gig. I haven't had time to scour the interweb about this as work has been crazy.

Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers,

[Kiwi]

Dead spots occur on even the best of basses. They happen because all necks are flexible to some degree (even graphite ones). The wood that makes up the neck also has specific frequencies where it will vibrate to greater and lesser degrees in sympathy with the string and this is called 'harmonic resonance'. All materials from glass through to granite have a harmonic resonance. Its also the property that makes microphone diaphragms and drum skins vibrate in sympathy with a loud sound.

Due to the properties of the wood, the neck will also be slightly more flexible at these peaks (which is what allows it to be vibrate in sympathy) and a fretted note at the same frequency will have less sustain due to the subsequent lack of rigidity. Thats what gets you the dead note.

At least that's the explanation a tech head will give you.

More written about the nature of dead spots [url="http://www.acoustics.org/press/137th/fleischer.html"]here.[/url]

Fixes can include:

1) The strings (so try a new set out)
2) Change the flexibility of the neck (try tweaking the truss rod)
3) Poorly seated frets (so a check over by a luthier wouldn't hurt either)
4) Make the neck stiffer (will involve reinforcing the neck with graphite bars or stiffer fingerboard)

[Machines]

I think every bass i've had has had a deadspot to some degree of severity. It's inevitable..

[Paul_C]

adding mass to the headstock can alter things too - [url="http://www.stringsdirect.co.uk/Catalogue/ViewProduct.aspx?productId=406"]http://www.stringsdirect.co.uk/Catalogue/V...x?productId=406[/url]

[TPJ]

I'll swap the strings and see what happens. The action seems a little low due to the neck not having enough relief so I'll set that as well.

I never really noticed dead spots in my other axes, maybe I've been luck so far.

Cheers,

[Kiwi]

[quote name='TPJ' post='13523' date='Jun 7 2007, 11:59 AM']I never really noticed dead spots in my other axes, maybe I've been luck so far.[/quote]

Its likely that your other basses have dead spots too, its just that they don't share frequencies with notes on the fingerboard.

Alembic picked up on this idea in the design of their original Series basses - all centred around isolating the string as much as possible from the bass to promoted sustain and attack. The idea was to lower the resonant peak as much as possible below the fundamental frequencies produced by the instrument (at least according to Rick Turner). Make your own mind up about what that sounds like.

[martthebass]

When I got my Sterling it had a dead spot at the 5th on the E - not a good place. None of note anywhere else. If you post on EB forum about it they tend to get a bit shi**y. Strangely it wasn't noticeable acoustically only when amped up. Anyhow tweaked the rod a little (just an 1/8th turn - more relief) and now the bass seems to have settled down the problem seems to have dissapeared. I gather the G string deadspots are pretty classic.

[Machines]

I think my Stingray has a slight (and only slight) deadspot on 6th fret G - not a note I hit too often thankfully.

[Kiwi]

Just spotted this on the BBC website. Same principle of resonance for deadspots is providing a source of wireless energy using 'magnetic resonance'!

[i]"The system exploits "resonance", a phenomenon that causes an object to vibrate when energy of a certain frequency is applied.

When two objects have the same resonance they exchange energy strongly without having an effect on other surrounding objects. There are many examples of resonance. "[/i]

[url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6725955.stm"]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6725955.stm[/url]

[chris_b]

[quote name='Machines' post='13479' date='Jun 7 2007, 10:18 AM']I think every bass i've had has had a deadspot to some degree of severity. It's inevitable..[/quote]

Dead spots are inevitable on one piece necks eg; Fender, Musicman.

Manufacturers use a number of approaches on modern basses to reduce this problem:
- multi layer necks, they are not only there to look good,
- graphite rods,
- quarter sawn necks,
- carbon fiber necks,

These all increase cost of manufacture which is why they are not always used.

These might be your only options:
- As previously suggested, tweak the truss rod to increase rigidity of the neck.
- Use a Fatfinger, to increase the mass of the head. It does work.

Edited June 8, 2007 by chris_b

[TPJ]

Well, a string change later, including upping the gauge to 45, 65. 85. 105 together with a once over including intonation and string height seemed to have sorted most of this out. I was most worried about the low G on the E string but that seems ok now.

I played my first gig with the Stingray, or Irwin as my mates have nicknamed it, along with the AI focus and Bullfrog 210 I bought from eubasix. Man what a sound. Why didn't I but a 'Ray years ago?

Cheers,

[Kiwi]

Team it up with a valve head when you get the chance. The Stingray will make big sexy time with your ears.

[TPJ]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='15440' date='Jun 11 2007, 09:59 AM']Team it up with a valve head when you get the chance. The Stingray will make big sexy time with your ears.[/quote]
Well actually I run all my axes through a DHA Bob the Blender with no FX so it's an all valve preamp. You're absolutely right, the 'Ray just sings like a mo fo. If you hold out your arms to the sides like you're making a "T", that's how wide and phat the tone is. Fantabulous indeed.

Edited June 11, 2007 by TPJ

[Mr Cougar]

Could be worse, my entire E string on my Gibson LP Trumph is a dead spot, can' hear it amplified. My Stingray had one but a bitof messing around with the action etc seemed to sort it out. Fluke rather than skill though!

[BigRedX]

The Triumph is a short/medium scale isn't it?

Might be worth experimenting with some different strings. I have a Burns Sonic Bass with a 30" scale length which I used for the first 10 years of bass playing and spent the whole time figuring out basslines that didn't involve notes lower than open A so I wouldn't have to use the dull thud that was all the E string seemed cabable of. When I was looking for suitable Extra Long scale strings for my next bass I was recommended to try Newtone. Since the strings they made for the 36" bass were excellent on a whim I ordered a set for the Burns. What a revelation! All of a sudden I had real notes available from the E. Might be worth trying?

[Mr Cougar]

Thanks BRX I shall give some a go... will let you know how I go on.

[MileBG]

I also had a dead spots on my brand new Fender Marcus Miller,but after string replacement and neck setup they almost disapeared!

[King Tut]

That's interesting about the 'G' on the 'E' string. My 'Classic 50's' P had exactly the same issue when playing quietly , but at gigs it seemed to dissapear. Now I've played it a bit it's gone - hopefully - for ever! I've probably set it up a bit and tweaked the truss rod - so maybe that's made the difference. I've always associated dead spots with the G string and was quite amazed at myself when I bought the P home, and found it flumped it that most fundamental of positions! But hey - it's 'All Right Now!!'

Col

[Johngh]

[quote name='martthebass' post='13772' date='Jun 7 2007, 07:48 PM']If you post on EB forum about it they tend to get a bit shi**y.[/quote]



+1 Your not kidding. I posted a comment on the EB forum about this subject and thought I was going to get shot !

Edited September 7, 2007 by Johngh

[steve66]

I was able to "fix" the a few notes (lack of sustain) on the G string on a buddy's Fender Jazz by taking the neck off and installing brass inserts and machine screws in place of the stock neck screws. If anyone is looking to try this, It did require some drilling in the stock neck holes to make room for the inserts. after measuring, I used a drill bit stop so I wouldnt drill through the neck completely. Other than watching out for that, its a fairly easy mod, and holds the neck to the body very tight.

[Kiwi]

[quote name='Johngh' post='56831' date='Sep 7 2007, 09:24 AM']+1 Your not kidding. I posted a comment on the EB forum about this subject and thought I was going to get shot ! [/quote]
I think thats a good enough reason to ignore that forum completely (apart from the 25 min refresh times during peak demand). I think they're very parochial on that forum and its encouraged from the highest levels due because of corporate and commercial imperatives, rather than social ones.

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='Johngh' post='56831' date='Sep 7 2007, 09:24 AM']+1 Your not kidding. I posted a comment on the EB forum about this subject and thought I was going to get shot ! [/quote]

I'm assuming that none of them politely suggested getting a Status Graphite neck for it, then?!

Following on from which;

Phenolic fretboards seem to ameliorate the worst of the dead-spot issue. I'm assuming they're quite stiff and also more consistent than their wooden equivalents.
Unfortunately, they're really unforgiving of dodgy technique and lack warmth and any "organic" nature to the tone.
Does any wooden fretboard material seem better or worse than any other for smoothing out the neck's dead spots?

[synaesthesia]

[quote name='Johngh' post='56831' date='Sep 7 2007, 09:24 AM']+1 Your not kidding. I posted a comment on the EB forum about this subject and thought I was going to get shot ! [/quote]

Nothing new in that sort of behaviour in the branded forums. The Alembic, Rickenbacker, insert your brand 'here' etc etc etc forums are places where blasphemy and sacrilege cannot be tolerated.

[fretmeister]

Never had a problem with a Status!

I think the 'clinical' sound thing is over worried about though - it just needs different amp settings to get the warmth back thats all.

I'll never go back to wood necks.

[jammie17]

[quote name='Johngh' post='56831' date='Sep 7 2007, 08:24 AM']+1 Your not kidding. I posted a comment on the EB forum about this subject and thought I was going to get shot ! [/quote]


You know, that never happens to anyone who posts there. And I have had numerous EBMM basses with dead spots. The maple fretboard ones were worse than the Rosewood. I don't remember a bass that I have owned that did not have a dead spot or "harmonic" issue somewhere on the neck. Just that some brands I have owned seemed to have more of them than others.

Edited December 8, 2007 by jammie17