Tubes to tame Orange Bass Terror?

[Beedster]

Any thoughts? I'd like a little more warmth and a little less grunt? Currently 2 x 12AX7s

Cheers

C

[KK Jale]

Ah. We are on the same path.

The commonest answer you'll get is a 5751 or a 12AT7…. but I read recently that modern 12AX7's have a gain factor that can vary by 40%. So maybe try any half-decent 12AX7s you can get hold of and judge 'em by ear before splashing out on spendy NOS tubes.

Here are some 12AX7 review sites I have bookmarked. There's a fabulous one I can't find at the moment.

Warning: this way absolute madness lies.

[url="http://thetubestore.com/12ax7review.html"]http://thetubestore.com/12ax7review.html[/url]
[url="http://www.ecc83.co.uk/category/ecc8312ax7-overview/"]http://www.ecc83.co.uk/category/ecc8312ax7-overview/[/url]
[url="http://www.vacuumtubes.com/12ax7.html"]http://www.vacuumtubes.com/12ax7.html[/url]
[url="https://www.tubeworld.com/12ax7.htm"]https://www.tubeworld.com/12ax7.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.watfordvalves.com/cgi-bin/docum...estreport_2.pdf"]http://www.watfordvalves.com/cgi-bin/docum...estreport_2.pdf[/url] (pdf)

Yet more useful/non-useful 12AX7 blather……

[url="http://vintageamps.com/plexiboard/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=54164&p=508924"]http://vintageamps.com/plexiboard/viewtopi...64&p=508924[/url]
[url="http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=121087"]http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=121087[/url]

Some 12AX7's which MIGHT (IMHO) do what you want: new… JJ or Tung-Sol. NOS… GE.

Edited February 21, 2011 by KK Jale

[garethfriend]

I've just got a JAN Phillips 5751 to go in the V1 stage on mine, hoping for a bit more usable gain before breakup, going to get it from post office tomorrow or wed and try it out, will let you know how it turns out.

I have already swapped the stock tubes for JJ 12ax7s and the difference in terms of usable sounds was unreal. It really used to distort the lows far too easily and sound "farty" and "muddy" when it did it, now it is still really easy to get the grit but it's more usable and defined. Not all 12ax7s were created equal so it is definitley worth trying a few different brands.

I beleive (although not 100%) that between 5751s and 12at7s the 5751s are higher gain so are less of a step down from the 12ax7 so they are what I went for first. Seems alot of people swear by NOS 5751s for clarity and warmth though.

Gareth

Edited February 21, 2011 by garethfriend

[Happy Jack]

Just spend a silly amount of money on some 'mustard label' Mullards from the 60's.

If you spend enough, you'll be absolutely sure that you can hear exactly whatever it was that you wanted ...

[garethfriend]

Tried the 5751 today in the house, straight away less gain is obvious as I now have to turn the gain knob to about 7 to get it to break up. Definitly tamed it but can't decide if the tone is significantly different, definitly didn't need my usual treble boost to get a decent sound so I'd say it's brighter but then I also didn't need any bass boost either. Will get a better idea when I crank it a bit at practice on sunday. Also boosted the bass on my sterling to the max which would usually give a flabby horrible noise but now I get really, really bassy notes instead. Definitley not psycological but then I didn't spend much more than I did for the modern JJ's so wouldn't have been that bothered if it had been s**t. I do agree with happy jack slightly though, I saw a long plate mullard 12ax7 go for over £100 on ebay the other day. WTF? Are they really £100 good or is it the emperors new clothes?

[Dubs]

Interesting thread. I currently have the gain on mine set to about 1.5 and the volume to about 4 and this is LOUD gigging volume with my Tec 4x10. Pre gain break-up starts happening at about 2 and is completely saturated by 3.5/4. Think I may try a pair of JJ 12AX7s before spending silly money on anything else...

[Beedster]

Thanks for those posts guys, they're a great help. To be honest, the TB is SO load that I have all the usable tones I need if I keep the gain low. However, just in case I ever need more volume, I would certainly prefer it to break up at 7/10 as opposed to 2/10.

Just searched 12ax7 on the bay and you really can spend some money can't you

[Bassmonkey]

I bought mine at the end of December. Used it live twice and was great, then third time it made an absolute racket when I pushed it through the PA. Was unable to add any volume to the PA channel without horrible distortion. Ended up back at the retailers and it behaved exactly the same there as the line out was running super hot.

The amp went back to Orange and was fixed. Am playing again on Sat so fingers crossed will be OK. Interested to know if anyone else has experienced the same?

Andy

[KK Jale]

[quote name='Bassmonkey' post='1139783' date='Feb 24 2011, 11:49 AM']Used it live twice and was great, then third time it made an absolute racket when I pushed it through the PA. Was unable to add any volume to the PA channel without horrible distortion.[/quote]

I'm yet to use the DI out myself but the TB is infamous for its ridiculously hot DI out. It runs at +4dB when most desks want to see something like -10dB. Apparently the TB's DI level is affected by the gain knob, which doesn't help if you need a fair whack of stage level. The answer is an inline attenuator. Some TB owners report success with this one, though -40dB seems like a lot to me.

[url="http://www.studiospares.com/mic-accessories/pro-40db-inline-attenuator/invt/568600/"]http://www.studiospares.com/mic-accessorie...or/invt/568600/[/url]

Hope this helps.

[Low End Bee]

[quote name='Bassmonkey' post='1139783' date='Feb 24 2011, 11:49 AM']I bought mine at the end of December. Used it live twice and was great, then third time it made an absolute racket when I pushed it through the PA. Was unable to add any volume to the PA channel without horrible distortion. Ended up back at the retailers and it behaved exactly the same there as the line out was running super hot.

The amp went back to Orange and was fixed. Am playing again on Sat so fingers crossed will be OK. Interested to know if anyone else has experienced the same?

Andy[/quote]


Mine's very hot on the DI. Some desks can handle it some can't.

I have one of these in the little Orange handbag it lives in at all times. Works a treat. [url="http://www.studiospares.com/mic-accessories/pro-40db-inline-attenuator/invt/568600/"]40db attenuator[/url]

[Beedster]

[quote name='Low End Bee' post='1139799' date='Feb 24 2011, 11:58 AM']Mine's very hot on the DI. Some desks can handle it some can't.

I have one of these in the little Orange handbag it lives in at all times. Works a treat. [url="http://www.studiospares.com/mic-accessories/pro-40db-inline-attenuator/invt/568600/"]40db attenuator[/url][/quote]

It is a handbag isn't it. My girlfriend's got her eye on it

[cheddatom]

could you not just turn the volume down on your bass, rather than swapping expensive tubes to find the right gain?

[Beedster]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='1139820' date='Feb 24 2011, 12:14 PM']could you not just turn the volume down on your bass, rather than swapping expensive tubes to find the right gain?[/quote]

Turning down is never really a solution Tom! I'm not talking expensive trust me, just lower gain.

[Bassmonkey]

[quote name='Low End Bee' post='1139799' date='Feb 24 2011, 11:58 AM']Mine's very hot on the DI. Some desks can handle it some can't.

I have one of these in the little Orange handbag it lives in at all times. Works a treat. [url="http://www.studiospares.com/mic-accessories/pro-40db-inline-attenuator/invt/568600/"]40db attenuator[/url][/quote]

Sounds like a plan. Does that effectively manage the DI output better? would you choose the 40Db version rather than the 10, 20 or 30Db versions? being a doofus I don't really understand their purpose but if they help resolve my problem, i'll gladly invest that fiver!

Thx and sorry to hijack the thread Beedster
Andy

[Beedster]

[quote name='Bassmonkey' post='1139862' date='Feb 24 2011, 12:48 PM']Thx and sorry to hijack the thread Beedster
Andy[/quote]

Far from it, I've no doubt you're simply pre-empting my next problem/question

[algmusic]

Yep on the Pro 40Db Inline Attenuator.. It just stays in my TB carry bag for DI

I think they have sorted this problem on the new TB though, so unless it's old stock you shouldn't need it.

I bought mine 2nd hand, so had to by one. If you keep the bass between 2-2.5 it'll be fine..

I had the same question about my valves in my mind, but I think I'll stick with mine for now, as I've never been short of power on that little monster even with gain at 2

[cheddatom]

[quote name='Beedster' post='1139825' date='Feb 24 2011, 12:17 PM']Turning down is never really a solution Tom! I'm not talking expensive trust me, just lower gain.[/quote]

OK, expense a-side, why is turning down not a valid way of reducing the distortion you get?

[Beedster]

[quote name='Low End Bee' post='1139799' date='Feb 24 2011, 11:58 AM']Mine's very hot on the DI. Some desks can handle it some can't.

I have one of these in the little Orange handbag it lives in at all times. Works a treat. [url="http://www.studiospares.com/mic-accessories/pro-40db-inline-attenuator/invt/568600/"]40db attenuator[/url][/quote]

I'm amazed, I was expecting that piece of kit to be around £150

[Beedster]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='1139926' date='Feb 24 2011, 01:24 PM']OK, expense a-side, why is turning down not a valid way of reducing the distortion you get?[/quote]

I'm not saying it isn't valid, it's just not the way I choose.

[cheddatom]

ahhh, OK, I misunderstood!

[Cat Burrito]

I'm intrigued by this thread. I like my Terror head a lot but certainly concur with the original post. So I contacted Watford Valves as having spoken to them before they clearly know their stuff. The recommendation I had back was

[url="http://www.watfordvalves.com/product_detail.asp?id=2325"]http://www.watfordvalves.com/product_detail.asp?id=2325[/url]

and I've placed an order. If it's half as good as the description I'll be happy.

I too own one of those Pro 40Db Inline Attenuator and have found it's only needed at some venues I've played. Pops right in the front of the carry bag & cheap enough to not have me panicing if I did happen to forget it one night.

[Dood]

I've just been rambling on another thread about changing a 12AX& for a 5751. I've definitely noted differences which I think will be the kinda thing you need to tame your amp. You don't have to spend a fortune to grab a couple of 5751's to test the theory with either.

[garethfriend]

Tried the 5751 at volume on sunday for the first time, definitley warmer sounding and more controlled than the 12ax7. It's weird because normally I can't tell the difference between single coil and series mode on my sterling when it's sat in the mix but since the swap it's really obvious. Think it's a detail thing.

[thebuckets]

[quote name='BurritoBass' timestamp='1298912278' post='1144647'] I'm intrigued by this thread. I like my Terror head a lot but certainly concur with the original post. So I contacted Watford Valves as having spoken to them before they clearly know their stuff. The recommendation I had back was [url="http://www.watfordvalves.com/product_detail.asp?id=2325"]http://www.watfordvalves.com/product_detail.asp?id=2325[/url] and I've placed an order. If it's half as good as the description I'll be happy. I too own one of those Pro 40Db Inline Attenuator and have found it's only needed at some venues I've played. Pops right in the front of the carry bag & cheap enough to not have me panicing if I did happen to forget it one night. [/quote]
Do you need to replace both valves with these or just v1 or v2?
Cheers

[dannybuoy]

If you check the diagram in the manual, it looks like the second tube only drives the FX loop and DI so therefore shouldn't have an impact on the main tone - so just changing the V1 tube, which should be the one on the right nearest the input should be enough to tame the gain control.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/SXtkx8w.png[/IMG]