Do necks to move over time?

[cameltoe]

I've been thoroughly enjoying my Roadworn Precision since I picked it up in July, and bought it as it was one of the easiest playing, mellow feeling basses I had ever touched. The action was set as low as could be, and I learnt to develop a much improved touch as a result, as anything too enthusiastic would send the frets rattling!

However it seems lately that the action has somehow gotten higher on this bass. It's still very playable, but not like it was. Whereas before the action stayed consistently low from the first fret to the last, you can now see the string height increasing over the middle of the neck, as if there is suddenly more relief in the neck.

Before, if the bass wasn't in tune, (even a semi-tone out) the strings would rattle against the frets even when played very lightly. That doesn't happen anymore, so at least I know I'm not imagining it.

I know the saddles haven't been adjusted at all, and I've kept it in it's hard case whilst it's not been played. Whenever I've changed the strings I've changed one at a time.

Is this something that just happens over a bit of time? I know the Roadworns are made to (almost ! ) vintage spec, so maybe the one-piece maple necks are just a bit unstable?

The only other things I can think of, is that;
1) I left a set of DR sunbeams on there until they went absolutely completely dead.
2)The recent cold weather might have affected it? Even then, it's not improved since it got warmer. And I keep it in my warm house, so the cold weather would only get to it on gig nights, etc.
3) I changed the tuners to Gotoh res-o-lites (again, one at a time), but I can't see how this would have anymore of an affect than changing strings.

I've been using DR sunbeams since I got it and they are the strings on there at the moment, so it's not like I've put a higher tension string on either.

I'm still a relative newbie to the world of bass, so take it easy on me if I've not got all my facts right, I'm just guessing.

To solve the problem I was thinking of taking it to Mansons in Exeter for a professional set-up. The last time it was set up was a few months before I bought it (July last year), I had played it in the shop several times before I parted with my hard-earned and it felt lovely every time. I'm reluctant to take it back to them though as the turnaround can be weeks and weeks.

I've also read that Mansons are one of the best places to get a guitar set up- even though they will be more expensive, it'll be a hell of a job.

They will also adjust/ file the nut if need be to get the perfect action which is something I know my local shop won't do.

Suggestions please!!!

[Ou7shined]

I'm going to go for point 2 - but it is important to remember that wood is a material which is constantly on the move so how you set it up in July probably isn't how it needs to be set right now. I give my most played basses a fresh going over at least every 2 months and it keeps them happy.

[Mog]

I've had the same problems on [u]ALL[/u] of my basses. I've always assumed it was because of the extremely low action I use. All you can do apart from clamping the neck is use the truss rod but this only goes so far.
The best way I can describe it is to imagine you have a thin length of wood between your thumb and index finger, start to apply pressure at bot ends and the piece of wood will bow in the centre.
I've no idea why a low action would cause it to bow that quickly though. Maybe one of the luthiers around here will have an answer.

[The Burpster]

Sounds like a simple tweak on the truss rod is required and if thats beyond you then get a tech to do it. If its not then righty tighty, lefty loosey, and about 1/4 turn should do the trick....

Its finbe for it to settle after a period of time, as the strings strech to a stable length, you will end up tightening then a little from new. Thsi in turn can require a little balancing of the equation with the truss rod. Its completely natural an nothing to worry about.

[martthebass]

All my wooden necked basses need some adjustment from time to time. I usually get the opposite to your experience on my MMs - here come winter I find the neck loses a bit of relief and I start to get some fretboard clatter or fouling. A quarter turn left usually cures it nicely - it's then that I appreciate the easy adjustment on Stingrays. For yourself just give it a quarter turn right and give it a day to settle before you assess the result - if it isn't enough repeat as required, you can't hurt anything if you take it slow and steady.

[GRAHAM SG1]

I bought an Ibanez BTB770 yesterday and it was perfect in the shop and last night at home, today it had a buzzing E string at the 1st fret, I put it down to the temperature difference between the shops storeroom and my room at home, a quick loosening of the truss rod and its sorted .

[stingrayPete1977]

Give it a tweak it's got to be the truss rod that wants adjusting , I bet there is a basschatter near you that will tweak it if you don't fancy doing it?

[cameltoe]

Awesome advice all round guys, cheers.

I've adjusted truss rods before on my previous instruments, basically because they were all budget instruments with poor set-ups from new, and with a bit of advice on this forum and the Fender set-up guide I gave it a go.

With the Roadworn though, I'm reluctant to do it myself. For starters, I so loved the bass how it was when I bought it I fear I may not be able to recreate that myself, and two, the bass has the vintage-style truss rod adjustment at the base of the neck, which requires the neck to be removed.

The fact that people recommend leaving it a day or so after adjustment only serves to reinforce my lack of confidence! I'd have to remove neck, adjust truss rod, leave a day, refit neck, restring, probably leave it a while after restringing, then if it's not right I have to go through the process again. That's fine, but someone more experienced may be able to tell whether the neck needs more adjustment whilst it's still off the bass, and without going through the whole process of setting it back up to be played. That's without the fact that the bridge may need to be adjusted to get the best out of the neck at the same time!

Don't think I have the confidence for an instrument I love so much!

Mansons?

[martthebass]

Whereabouts are you based, if your in the North I've started taking my prized babies to Jon Shuker for more in depth setups, that way I know I'll get a good job.

[stingrayPete1977]

Its a shame about the vintage truss rod and like others have said the EB wheel of fortune really is good even the EBS_freak likes them! Its not something I would give that much thought to if I liked the bass I would buy it but I can see it being a bit of a fiddle and the neck bolts in and out all the time isnt the best method. Hopefully after this initial tweek it will stay put for a while my 02 EBMM had its first ever setup this year in 8 years which is a bit longer than ou7shined 2 month checkups. Maybe I just got a good one? The new Ray 5 setup isnt quite right yet but until I change the stock strings to my normal gauge I cant really get it perfect, When I say I cant I meen my personal bass tech guru EBS_freak will be doing it while I clatter his GB's

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1075842' date='Jan 2 2011, 10:35 PM']Its a shame about the vintage truss rod and like others have said the EB wheel of fortune really is good even the EBS_freak likes them! Its not something I would give that much thought to if I liked the bass I would buy it but I can see it being a bit of a fiddle and the neck bolts in and out all the time isnt the best method. Hopefully after this initial tweek it will stay put for a while my 02 EBMM had its first ever setup this year in 8 years [b]which is a bit longer than ou7shined 2 month checkups. Maybe I just got a good one?[/b] The new Ray 5 setup isnt quite right yet but until I change the stock strings to my normal gauge I cant really get it perfect, When I say I cant I meen my personal bass tech guru EBS_freak will be doing it while I clatter his GB's [/quote]
I have guitar setting up tools out every day of my life for whatever bass job I'm involved in so do it whether they need it or not - mostly it's the latter but at least I know I'm always on top of it... like checking yer baws for lumps or whatever.... which sadly I do less often than I check my guitars healths.

[stingrayPete1977]

[GRAHAM SG1]

Looking after instruments is a labour of love, think how good it feels to have restored a filthy sweat covered bass after a gig to all shiny and clean again, I use Dunlop Carnauba polish which makes your bass look new again, I like cleaning the fret board and seeing the muck on the cloth-sad I know but I love it !!

[Happy Jack]

Given that it's not a vintage instrument, I suggest doing what I've done to two of my Precisions ... have a luthier create an access point at the trussrod so that you can adjust it without removing the neck.

It's not a difficult or expensive job, but it is NOT reversible so be sure that you want to do it.

Depending on how he creates the access, you can either go for a "sloped" cut that will let you use a straight screwdriver or a "straight" cut that requires an offset driver (most toolshops sell them in packs of three different sizes).

[Mr Fudge]

I only have 2 basses (at the moment ), both 50% Jap/US Fender Jazz with skinny necks. Both basses are mongrels with different necks and bodies from where Mr Fenders magical elves made them. The one bass I have to really keep my eye on is my maple board 3 bolt with the extra micro tilt. The other a rosewood on maple has always been as solid as a rock but I do tweek the maple on maple every few months. I like my action pretty low so I am fussy/anal/autistic about this kind of thing.

Hope this helps.

Edited January 3, 2011 by Mr Fudge

[Circle_of_Fifths]

I've been taking mental notes on what I see as an occurrence that can be rare on some bases and common on others.

Mostly I see people needing to chase the adjustments on basses with either worn or removed neck coatings on the backside where your hand is.

Those basses with a poly coated neck on the other hand seem to fair somewhat better and not need as much truss rod adjustment over the time one owns it.

F'rinstance, my Ibanez - which has the flatted neck finish which is a fake-out as it really IS coated - has never had to be adjusted in all the two years I've had it.

Only one of my Fender/Squiers ever needed an adjustment and that was when I changed to ROTO 77 strings and different tension.

I like about a .003-.008" scoop in the neck and somewhat close clearance because I don't slap or really dig in too hard - so I imagine if I had necks dancing about from humidity or temperature changes, these would be the most likely ones to need constant adjustments.

After initial set-up by me and intonation and such, I cannot in honesty say that I've ever had any gross adjustments to make on a seasonal basis and we DO have all four seasons here where I live. It's snowing as I write this after two weeks of solid rain after one of the driest Summers on record.

For background - I live at a fairly high altitude (4,100 feet/ 1,250 Meters) and I have severe single-digit humidity most of the year.

I also play in Palm Springs at sea level, again almost zero humidity - but seriously higher temps : 110ºF/43ºC and I experience no changes in the neck adjustments - none that need truss rod adjustments anyway.

Then other times (sometimes the same day, hours apart) I am in either Newport Beach or San Diego playing at 60-85% humidity and temps at 70-80ºF/ 21-27ºC, and again no problems.

My point is that I feel a sealed neck and body and fretboard are inherently more stable because they don't have raw wood exposed to the elements - whereas a Road Worn or Relic'd or just worn out surface will exchange temps and any bi-valence of moisture changes becomes a lot easier for that to corrupt the neck.

[JTUK]

I believe there are degrees of stable necks. I had a Musicman which was rock solid... and never needed much attention and my 3 basses now all need 'winterising'... and that a change of strings can have more of an affect in that time.

For this reason, I always keep my basses laid flat or hanging in constant temps..I allow them to acclimatise and never ever leave them in a cold car for any longer that I have to. If I was going to work and then straight to a gig..I would take them out of the car and out of the bag..and lay them down. I never stand them up by the neck.

Maybe this is OTT, but it works for me and can't see any reason to adjust the neck more than twice a year, so I have a 'winter' mode and 'summer' mode. I have a very low action so would notice if the strings/neck rose by 1mm. I am not saying it would make the bass unplayable, but I would notice and my playing likely be affected.

[The Burpster]

[quote name='cameltoe' post='1075811' date='Jan 2 2011, 10:06 PM']The fact that people recommend leaving it a day or so after adjustment only serves to reinforce my lack of confidence! I'd have to remove neck, adjust truss rod,[b] [color="#FF0000"]leave a day[/color][/b], refit neck, restring, probably leave it a while after restringing, then if it's not right I have to go through the process again. That's fine, but someone more experienced may be able to tell whether the neck needs more adjustment whilst it's still off the bass, and without going through the whole process of setting it back up to be played. That's without the fact that the bridge may need to be adjusted to get the best out of the neck at the same time!

Don't think I have the confidence for an instrument I love so much![/quote]

The bit I've highlighted above needs some clarity. You don't leave the neck off the body for a day, under tension (this is very bad)...!

Proceedure is - slacken strings. Undo neck bolts, remove neck ( I leave the strings attached now), tweak t-rod, and then replace neck on body. Retune. LEAVE it in that state for a day (you can play it as much as you like in that time!) and then measure the relief again. If it needs a further little tweak then repeat the proceedure. THATS what the 'leave it a day' means....

The truss rod's job is to equalise the assymetric mechanical tension that the strings put a piece of wood under (the neck structure). The neckwood couldn't cope without some assistance, however the neck wood and the trussrod work together to form this balance and wood being from an organic substance needs a little while to adjust.

As to the confidence bit.... I cant possibly give you any, but I can encourage you that this is not a big, difficult or scary procedure if you set your stall out and take your time. Invest in a GOOD Philips #2 screwdriver for the neck bolts, and get intimate with your bass.

Mansons are a very good luthier, but will charge you for this proceedure, and if you keep going there every time it settles or your change strings etc, its going to get very expensive.

[cameltoe]

[quote name='The Burpster' post='1076046' date='Jan 3 2011, 07:57 AM']The bit I've highlighted above needs some clarity. You don't leave the neck off the body for a day, under tension (this is very bad)...!

Proceedure is - slacken strings. Undo neck bolts, remove neck ( I leave the strings attached now), tweak t-rod, and then replace neck on body. Retune. LEAVE it in that state for a day (you can play it as much as you like in that time!) and then measure the relief again. If it needs a further little tweak then repeat the proceedure. THATS what the 'leave it a day' means....

The truss rod's job is to equalise the assymetric mechanical tension that the strings put a piece of wood under (the neck structure). The neckwood couldn't cope without some assistance, however the neck wood and the trussrod work together to form this balance and wood being from an organic substance needs a little while to adjust.

As to the confidence bit.... I cant possibly give you any, but I can encourage you that this is not a big, difficult or scary procedure if you set your stall out and take your time. Invest in a GOOD Philips #2 screwdriver for the neck bolts, and get intimate with your bass.

Mansons are a very good luthier, but will charge you for this proceedure, and if you keep going there every time it settles or your change strings etc, its going to get very expensive.[/quote]

True.

As far as the procedure goes, I'm confident I can take the neck off, adjust the truss rod and refit neck, but it's the finer details I worry about, like possibly needing to adjust the bridge to compensate, the nut profile, and the specific way of making the adjustments (that you've highlighted above well, cheers).

I guess I've got nothing to lose though, by making a quarter-turn adjustment and seeing if it improves it? If it does, I've saved myself a trip to Exeter (1hr 30mins drive) and the cost, plus the length of time without my bass.

If it doesn't, then back to plan A.

Just to get this straight though, I believe the truss rod now has excessive relief, so I'd need to tighten truss rod by turning to the right, no more than a quarter turn yes?

I may give it a go.

[essexbasscat]

Know what you mean about the shifting neck Cameltoe, my RW Precision's neck does move around a bit over time, not much, but enough to be noticable if you're familiar with the instrument.

To be honest, I have mine set up to a general happy medium so that it's easily playable no matter what's going on. It's currently strung with DR Marcus Miller Fat Beams, which seem to work very, very well.
The action is moderately low, not as low as some and by no means perfect, but overall, the instrument is such a joy to gig on a regular basis that I'm no longer really overly concerned about the action. I do check the bass over regularly as it's a regularly gigged instrument. I've never found any real issues and it's always easily playable.

In summary, yes, mine moves a small amount too, but I've now become accustomed to accepting that as an ideosyncracy. I still love the bass to bits and continue to be impressed with it every time I play it, including when I'm a home working stuff out.
On stage, the RW Precision just allows me to concentrate on what the rest of the band is doing, what my next vocal job is, what the next number is.... in fact, getting on with the gig.
The bass contributes to to making my job easier and I enjoy playing it, which is all I could ever ask for I suppose.

Hope you find a happy place with your bass Cameltoe

Cheers

T

Edit;

Having said all that, I did take time initially to get that happy medium set- up, which came down to a 1/8th turn of the T'rod and around 4-5 days of small adjustments to the saddles. Tools that fit the screw heads correctly and a large dose of patience take the worry out of it. Next job is to fit a set of those lighter machine heads.

Edited January 3, 2011 by essexbasscat

[mart]

[quote name='cameltoe' post='1076182' date='Jan 3 2011, 12:07 PM']....
Just to get this straight though, I believe the truss rod now has excessive relief, so I'd need to tighten truss rod by turning to the right, no more than a quarter turn yes?
...[/quote]

Yep, that's right: if your action is now too high then you need to turn the truss rod to the right (i.e. clockwise, just as you would if you were tightening any other sort of screw) and just a quarter-turn to start with.

[ThomBassmonkey]

It's worth pointing out that not all truss rods go the same way. Answers on this thread are probably right for the OP's RW, but if anyone else is thinking of tweaking their truss rod, use common sense and try it out.

[The Burpster]

[quote name='cameltoe' post='1076182' date='Jan 3 2011, 12:07 PM']True.

As far as the procedure goes, I'm confident I can take the neck off, adjust the truss rod and refit neck, but it's the finer details I worry about, like possibly needing to adjust the bridge to compensate, the nut profile, and the specific way of making the adjustments (that you've highlighted above well, cheers).

I guess I've got nothing to lose though, by making a quarter-turn adjustment and seeing if it improves it? If it does, I've saved myself a trip to Exeter (1hr 30mins drive) and the cost, plus the length of time without my bass.

If it doesn't, then back to plan A.

Just to get this straight though, I believe the truss rod now has excessive relief, so I'd need to tighten truss rod by turning to the right, no more than a quarter turn yes?

I may give it a go.[/quote]

CT, ok so I may have inspired you so, set yourself up for this - kids out the way, good lady out shopping. Clear area to work in. DONT RUSH.
Your truss rod hasnt excess relief the neck has.
So apart from looking down it from the body do you know to measure relief? Fret at 1st + 13th fret and measure or visualise the gap at the 6th fret - that is the relief. Fast low actions (straighter neck) are generally 1mm or less, more than that is a higher action and probably where you are now.

This will give you a giuide so that you know what you are looking for when you have finished. If you need a guide as to how to the other twiddly bits, then this is a good simple guide.....

[url="http://www.tunemybass.com"]http://www.tunemybass.com[/url]

If you really want to get into this and know your onions then this is all you'll ever need, and will be the best £10 you ever spend....

[url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Make-Electric-Guitar-Great-Player/dp/0879306017/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1294077991&sr=8-3"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Make-Electric-Guit...7991&sr=8-3[/url]


[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1076358' date='Jan 3 2011, 03:19 PM']It's worth pointing out that not all truss rods go the same way. Answers on this thread are probably right for the OP's RW, but if anyone else is thinking of tweaking their truss rod, use common sense and try it out.[/quote]


OK so now I'm intregued, I've set up American, German and Jap basses, electrics and accoustics single and double action trussrods..... can you let me know which truss rods are not a std righthand thread....?

[Ou7shined]

[url="http://www.garywillis.com/pages/bass/bassmanual/setupmanual.html"]Here's[/url] another good guide too.

[cameltoe]

Brilliant guys!

Will let you know how I get on....