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[BassBunny]

Hi Phil,

I've just checked your MySpace site and if the book is along the lines of the vids you have up there, it should be pretty special.
For what it's worth you may want to look at what Mike Dimmin did with his "Art of Solo Bass", he includes Tab.
If you intend to publish the bbok it would realy limit sales if you didn't.
I bitterly regret not learning to read when I was younger. I started a while back but it is slow going, (mainly an age thing). I do find that having Tab with normal transcriptions has helped me with my reading.
Unfortunately due to the popularity of TAB it is now almost a pre-requisite.

[Doddy]

[quote name='waynepunkdude' post='1056068' date='Dec 12 2010, 02:59 PM']Tab is just as acceptable a way of reading music as reading music, I can't see an argument against it.[/quote]

Without going down he argument route again,no it isn't.

[skej21]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1056280' date='Dec 12 2010, 06:14 PM']Without going down he argument route again,no it isn't.[/quote]

+1 (ish)

I agree that using tab to learn a song in advance of a rehearsal or as a way to remember what you have done is an acceptable practice.

However, tab is certainly not on par with notation in terms of accurately and specifically expressing the intentions of the music and/or the composer, so that it can be performed in the same way by any trained musician.

There are many reasons why session musicians, pit musicians and most other pros don't use tab. The most important being that tab does not correspond (and often contrasts) directly with the annotation and written music other instruments such as brass, piano, drums etc will be using to perform from (standard notation).

For example, what would happen in a pit ensemble if the bassist was reading from tab whilst everyone else reads dots and then the MD tells you "we go to the reprise at bar 45, not bar 49"... the bassist's tab and it's lack of bar numbers/written structure instantly becomes a useless and redundant tool. This sort of thing is what makes tab a poor alternative in comparison. It's not specific or accurate enough.

Edited December 12, 2010 by skej21

[Doddy]

I've just had a bit of a thought.

As Phil's book is about chord tones,the Tab is actually kind of redundant,as it doesn't actually differentiate between
say,a #4 and a b5. It's only really going to show fingering position and not the actual chord tones,which kind of defeats the
object.

Still,you'll probably have to include Tab anyway. If you remember Jeff Berlin's old book on chord tones,the publishers
insisted on including Tab for sales reasons...and as we all know,no one is more anti Tab than Jeff Berlin.

[skej21]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1056298' date='Dec 12 2010, 06:37 PM']...and as we all know,no one is more anti Tab than Jeff Berlin.[/quote]

Apart from maybe you, Doddy

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='skej21' post='1056293' date='Dec 12 2010, 06:26 PM']+1 (ish)

I agree that using tab to learn a song in advance of a rehearsal or as a way to remember what you have done is an[b] acceptable practice[/b].

.[/quote]


No such thing as acceptable or unacceptable if you can you can play the song as intended, however you do it is irrelevant and boarders on snobbery.


The OP is asiking about a book that people will use at home not a score that will be used in a production so it makes sense to make it as accessible to as many people as possible.

[Shaggy]

[quote name='waynepunkdude' post='1056068' date='Dec 12 2010, 02:59 PM']Tab is just as acceptable a way of reading music as reading music, I can't see an argument against it.[/quote]

[quote name='waynepunkdude' post='1056304' date='Dec 12 2010, 06:41 PM']No such thing as acceptable or unacceptable if you can you can play the song as intended, however you do it is irrelevant and boarders on snobbery.


The OP is asiking about a book that people will use at home not a score that will be used in a production so it makes sense to make it as accessible to as many people as possible.[/quote]

+1

I rely heavily on tabs; it's an invaluable way of quickly learning the fundamentals of a piece of music, that I can then interpret in my own way. It's all relative anyway; virtuosos such as Segovia and Mick Karn who didn't / don't read music would probaly find conventional musical notation as stifling to their way of playing as language is to thought.

Tablature dates back to mediaeval times for fretted instruments ( as I mentioned here; [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=114506"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=114506[/url] ) so the prejudice agaist it seems strange; on multi-course instruments (lutes can have 13+) it's absolutely invaluable for showing the fingering.

[Prosebass]

[quote name='Shaggy' post='1056347' date='Dec 12 2010, 07:14 PM']+1

I rely heavily on tabs; it's an invaluable way of quickly learning the fundamentals of a piece of music, that I can then interpret in my own way. It's all relative anyway; virtuosos such as Segovia and Mick Karn who didn't / don't read music would probaly find conventional musical notation as stifling to their way of playing as language is to thought.

Tablature dates back to mediaeval times for fretted instruments ( as I mentioned here; [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=114506"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=114506[/url] ) so the prejudice agaist it seems strange; on multi-course instruments (lutes can have 13+) it's absolutely invaluable for showing the fingering.[/quote]

Well said that man.....

if it had not been for those Western European upstarts we would still be using tabs....

[Pete Academy]

As someone who doesn't read I relied on tabs quite a bit during my musical upbringing. However, because I can't read, I've developed my listening skills to the point that I can usually nail a bass part by ear.

Is ear training better? Personally, I think so. How many people rely on electronic tuners? The ability to tune by ear is pretty non-existent, as is the ability to add up numbers without the use of a calculator.

Edited December 12, 2010 by Pete Academy

[waynepunkdude]

Devils advocate:

Surely it goes

By ear = talented and devoted to getting it right by yourself

Tab = Not got an ear for tone so need hints on key etc

Music = Lazy and have everything written out for you.

/ Devils advocate

[Doddy]

[quote name='Shaggy' post='1056347' date='Dec 12 2010, 07:14 PM']I rely heavily on tabs; it's an invaluable way of quickly learning the fundamentals of a piece of music, that I can then interpret in my own way. It's all relative anyway; virtuosos such as Segovia and Mick Karn who didn't / don't read music would probaly find conventional musical notation as stifling to their way of playing as language is to thought.[/quote]

According to many biographies,Segovia taught himself to read early on and used to transcribe Bach pieces.


[quote name='waynepunkdude' post='1056497' date='Dec 12 2010, 08:39 PM']Devils advocate:

Surely it goes

By ear = talented and devoted to getting it right by yourself

Tab = Not got an ear for tone so need hints on key etc

Music = Lazy and have everything written out for you.

/ Devils advocate[/quote]

You know full well that that's wrong,and just trying to be awkward about things.

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1056513' date='Dec 12 2010, 08:44 PM']According to many biographies,Segovia taught himself to read early on and used to transcribe Bach pieces.




You know full well that that's wrong,and just trying to be awkward about things.[/quote]


I was playing devils advocate, I think there is great skill but it doesn't mean other ways of reading are any less valid.

[Doddy]

[quote name='waynepunkdude' post='1056516' date='Dec 12 2010, 08:45 PM']I was playing devils advocate, I think there is great skill but it doesn't mean other ways of reading are any less valid.[/quote]

Outside of certain specialised guitar and bass books Tab doesn't exist. You will never see a chart written in tablature for any
instrument. I'm not talking about using it to learn songs in your bedroom,that can be done easily by ear.I'm talking about working
as a musician.
In the case of this particular topic,I don't believe that Tab conveys enough information to be useful in a book about
chord tones-as I said earlier.

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1056530' date='Dec 12 2010, 08:53 PM']Outside of certain specialised guitar and bass books Tab doesn't exist. You will never see a chart written in tablature for any
instrument. I'm not talking about using it to learn songs in your bedroom,that can be done easily by ear.I'm talking about working
as a musician.
In the case of this particular topic,I don't believe that Tab conveys enough information to be useful in a book about
chord tones-as I said earlier.[/quote]


Depends how it's done and to be fair most musicians on here only work with guitar/bass.

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='Johnston' post='1056577' date='Dec 12 2010, 09:17 PM']I'd agree with that .

One problem I have with reading music and I guess other people would have the same is whilst I am looking at it the notes seem to float about, it's hard to pick out whether it's on the line between them , blink and it looks like it's jumped up or down the stave.

It's hard to explain and I will admit I mentioned it to the optician and it's not as bad with my new glasses but it's still there. But it would really put a beginner off if there wasn't an alternative. I'm persevering but then my playing has gone to pot for other reasons and it's a way to extend my skill set without having to rely on harder lines. A beginner wouldn't necessarly think like that .[/quote]


Bigger print?

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='Johnston' post='1056589' date='Dec 12 2010, 09:24 PM']How easy is it to get printed stuff for bass nevermind getting it in bigger print?[/quote]


I guess you could blow it up with a photocopier, pain in the arse but it could help.

[jezzaboy]

When I was playing the Dog and duck last night to 8 people, they were shocked to learn that I can`t read all that fancy written out music. They were even more shocked when I told them that I used bass tabs!! Oh the humanity!!


OP I think that you should include them in the work as they are handy for guys like me who can`t read music. To be honest, my inability to read music has never held me back in the type of music that I play: popular covers in the pub and the odd function.

I must add that I have nothing but respect for people who can read and if that is a part of your gig then power to ya!!

Jez

[Michaelg]

i never have and never will see a problem with bass tabs. if someone wants to use bass tabs then thats completely fine, just as its completely fine to read bass notation. i personally find it more suitable and beneficial to just play by ear and write out the score as a rough guide or for memory.

its a shame to think people get sanctimonious about something so trivial

Edited December 12, 2010 by Michaelg

[TomKent]

Bass tab = for people who couldn't be bothered to/couldn't learn score and beginners. (in my opinion only though)

Do two versions, don't limit your market (sell to the tab'ers as well as the score'ers, the wider the demographic the better)!

Edited December 12, 2010 by TomKent

[birdy]

I would just stick all of the tab together in an appendix at the back of the book numbered / labelled so its easy to find if the reader wants or needs to refer to it.

Problem solved!

Steve

[Skol303]

The answer to this question seems fairly straightforward to me. The key issue being: who is the book going to be marketed at?

- If it's professional, semi-pro and 'hardened' hobbyists' then you probably don't need to include Tab.
- If it's garage amateurs and pub band members then Tab will be essential.

Personally, I'm in the latter category: I don't read music and so the book would be useless to me without Tabs.

Given the subject of the book, it sounds as though it's aimed at a more professional market - but again, this is really a decision for the author and publisher.

[Adrenochrome]

I'd suggest having the TAB as well as the notation. I can read music score but I also find reading TAB (occasionally) to be very quick and easy. TAB has limitations but showing positions and open strings (or not!) can be very useful, and you can't always infer that from written score.

Jon

[icastle]

[quote name='Johnston' post='1056577' date='Dec 12 2010, 09:17 PM']One problem I have with reading music and I guess other people would have the same is whilst I am looking at it the notes seem to float about, it's hard to pick out whether it's on the line between them , blink and it looks like it's jumped up or down the stave.[/quote]

That is [b]so[/b] mean.
Right you b*ggers - who's been putting ants on Johnston's sheet music?

[icastle]

[quote name='Johnston' post='1057701' date='Dec 13 2010, 07:31 PM']that is actually a good way to describe it!!![/quote]

[tauzero]

[quote name='icastle' post='1057464' date='Dec 13 2010, 04:16 PM']That is [b]so[/b] mean.
Right you b*ggers - who's been putting ants on Johnston's sheet music? [/quote]
Isn't that how Stockhausen composed?