Amplifiers

[martinbass7750]

Hi,

I use a Peavey MAX700 with a 4 ohm EBS Neo210, which gives just under 500 watts rms.

What difference would I hear if I upgraded the amp, and what would you guys suggest trying?

And if there is a difference in sound, is it the preamp or the power amp that makes a difference?

One thought I had was to get an EBS microbass preamp (or something similar) and use it to drive the power amp section of the Peavey.

I'm after a tighter bass sound, if that makes sense.

Oh, and the guitar is a Lakland 55-01 NTMB, strung with d'dario half rounds.

Any thoughts?

Cheers

Martin

[Machines]

The preamp is what you'd use to change (EQ) your sound, the poweramp should just make that signal louder. So in theory it shouldn't matter a toss what poweramp you use. In practise though.. I've no idea .

[bass_ferret]

I think you would hear loads of difference if you changed your amp - whether you like it is another matter. There are a lot of amps that claim to be transparent and allow the sound of your bass to be louder, so you can clearly hear the difference between basses. All my basses sound different through my HD350.

There are other amps that have a signature sound so whatever bass you plug into the amp it still sound the same. My Peavey T-max, great amp that it was, did this.

If you only use one bass though who gives a f***, so just go with your ears

[stingrayfan]

Amps do make a difference to your sound but then so does the stage you play on and the room you play in. I played a venue last weekend where the sound was terrible. Two months earlier, the sound was great. Same equipment on the same settings!

At end of the day, it's your ears that will tell you what's good and bad, so try a few things out and see what you like.

[niceguyhomer]

I'm probably wrong but IMO, it makes very little difference what you play in a band setting - to the audience anyway. The main criteria for me when choosing and using an amp is simplicity, reliability and volume. Stingrayfan is right, you can buy an amp, use it on a gig and it'll sound sublime, the next gig you might want to chuck it out the window because it sounds like a steaming pile of bat poo. Rooms make a bigger difference to the sound in my experience.

I use the EBS Microbass II into the power stage of my GK1001RBII and it makes a lovely noise. It's warmer than the preamp in my amp and very versatile - superb piece of kit.

Edited December 18, 2007 by niceguyhomer

[Dood]

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='105746' date='Dec 18 2007, 09:04 AM']I think you would hear loads of difference if you changed your amp - whether you like it is another matter.[/quote]




or in other words, "Welcome to the world of G.A.S"

[warwickhunt]

The amp makes a difference! So does the cab, the cables, the bass, your style, the room, your mood... the list goes on.

If a bass amp has enough headroom (volume) I can tend to get a giggable tone out of it, whether I'll like that tone is another matter but for the sake of Joe Public it'll sound like a bass. Past a certain price point any 'upgrade' will give you diminishing returns and you'll get a different tone but not necessarily a better tone.

Using a different pre with your existing gear is an upgrade that many people quite like because as you say to some degree the power section has comparatively little influence on your sound (excepting valve powers or esoteric solid state). A preamp pedal can also go with you in your gigbag/case and save time and weight when using other gear (rehearsals, shared billing etc). As Homer said, reliability is a consideration for most of us and for some people factors such as ease of use are important; I certainly think that your Peavey would be able to provide more than enough volume.

From personal experience be aware that not every single preamp works perfectly with every single power section. Contrary to popular belief most manufacturers do spend some time on R&D to get their amps to work correctly

re. recommendations; you'll get a host of personal recommendations maybe even people using the same bass as you but whether you'll like the tone you get is a different matter!

[Dood]

[quote name='Machines' post='105741' date='Dec 18 2007, 08:52 AM']The preamp is what you'd use to change (EQ) your sound, the poweramp should just make that signal louder. So in theory it shouldn't matter a toss what poweramp you use. In practise though.. I've no idea .[/quote]


I'm certainly no authority on the whole power amp thing, but in my stupidity and learning the hard way I have had the opportunity to try out a few power amps with my gear.

I have noticed differences between the sound of one poweramp to another.. I'm not going to suggest a whole 'which is better' discussion in terms of sound quality.. I could be comparing the equivalent of an SVT with an EBS for example. In a blind A/B I suspect I probably wouldnt be able to pick my own amp out of a selection.

One thing that I *have* noticed though.. and I can't even explain what it is between poweramps in my set up is I think what I would call 'immediancy'.. nah actually even that doesn't really explain it! Some poweramps I have tried seem like they are limiting or compressing 'holding back'?? um.. like someone is holding the speaker cone back... Does that actually make any sense? One or two that I have tried almost have the opposite effect in comparison. Notes seem to ping out.. I know! I'll call it 'touch sensitivity'!!! Quieter notes seem louder, again in comparison.

Now, what ever makes an amp do that, either engineered or otherwise.. I like it!

* excuse the nonsensical rambling.. I have a head full of snot and I can't concentrate! lol

[bass_ferret]

Interesting points here and if all we cared about was whether the audience liked the sound there would be no excuse for GAS

One of the things that made me change my rig was when some mates from an old band could not hear a difference in sound between an Ibanez Musician Fretless and a Bass Collection. I wanted to hear my fretless sing so I got an amp that would let it sing. f*** the audience.

[Dood]

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='105796' date='Dec 18 2007, 10:40 AM']Interesting points here and if all we cared about was whether the audience liked the sound there would be no excuse for GAS

One of the things that made me change my rig was when some mates from an old band could not hear a difference in sound between an Ibanez Musician Fretless and a Bass Collection. I wanted to hear my fretless sing so I got an amp that would let it sing. f*** the audience.[/quote]


That would be the EBS right? One thing I noticed about the 650 I tried out is how clear and.. 'touch sensitive' it felt. Bizarrely, as much as I love my SVP preamp.. it is 'lazy' in comparison. Valves Vs Solidstate, maybe?

[bass_ferret]

Yep. HD350.

[chris_b]

[quote name='martinbass7750' post='105730' date='Dec 18 2007, 08:28 AM']I use a Peavey MAX700 with a 4 ohm EBS Neo210, which gives just under 500 watts rms.
What difference would I hear if I upgraded the amp, and what would you guys suggest trying?[/quote]
The bass, your fingers and the preamp makes the tone and the power amp makes the volume. The speakers physically produce that volume and add their sound to the tone. Then the stage, PA and room then do their best to screw it all up.

To my ears there are a lot of amps which will sound better than a Peavey and I would change the amp first if you are starting on an upgrade path. If you want tight bass then try an EBS amp to go with your 2x10. You need at least 500 watts. They also go to 2 ohm so you can add another 4 ohm 2x10 at a later date. I think that adding the extra speaker cab will do the most to improve your sound, unless you always play quietly.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='niceguyhomer' post='105755' date='Dec 18 2007, 09:25 AM']I'm probably wrong but IMO, it makes very little difference what you play in a band setting - to the audience anyway. The main criteria for me when choosing and using an amp is simplicity, reliability and volume. Stingrayfan is right, you can buy an amp, use it on a gig and it'll sound sublime, the next gig you might want to chuck it out the window because it sounds like a steaming pile of bat poo. Rooms make a bigger difference to the sound in my experience.[/quote]

Totally agree with all of that and here are my thoughts.

Different amps have different EQ's. For example my SA450 has more mid control so i can get more variation out of that amp than i can out of my LMII even though they are both made by the same company and both have the same power amp section. Also amps EQ's have different freq points so again, different tones from different amps.

Its a funny thing though because ive not heard a P (for example) not sound like a P even though ive heard them played through so many different rigs.

I find that for me the biggest difference is in the cabs i use. All sound good but all sound different but at the end of the day if its a pleasing tone 99% of the audience wont care on my covers gigs.

Edited December 18, 2007 by dave_bass5

[martinbass7750]

Wow, that one produced a lot of answers very quickly!

Sounds like I need to try out some other amps to see if I need ( ) a change.

Thanks for all the advice.

[steve-soar]

In my experience you need to be able to hear your bass sitting in the mix of everything else, so you can groove to how the song changes.
If you are playing big rooms, your monitor man is your best friend, if you are playing in small rooms, without P.A. support, you need to be able to lock-in with the drummer and keep a close eye on your front person. I've only experienced that "Magical Stage Sound" a handful of times but when it happens it makes your job of playing almost effortless. So to sum up, turning down is the new turning up.

[jammie17]

Voicing.....pre amps, power amps, cables...just about everything in the audio chain will have some kind of effect...as far as the difference that Dood was trying to convey, I believe that the word "Forward" may be useful. In my younger days of spending huge amounts of money on my home playback system, I noticed how Forward most, not all, s/s amps were. Bright is another word to describe this sound.....