Lespaul1

Thanks Phil. When you say it's not the best for a cab, does it mean it's very bad and that I'd be better off starting over again with MDF? I'm adding an extra panel of 6mm to the front and the back, can that make things a bit better?

I'm working with a 12mm ply and it feels less sturdy / less solid than MDF. The main reason to coat the inside of the box is to provide some extra solidity to the wood, as it seems that the stiffer the surface the better it is to avoid resonance. I changed my mind since, and decided to try without any finish on the inside and will definitely keep the product on the outside to a minimum, as I am not really too sure the TuffCab will adhere to wood fillers or wood glue "MDF and plywood will readily accept Tuff Cab. Some resin, epoxy, plastic and solvent-based wood fillers will impair adhesion over the filled area." Has anyone ever applied DuraTex/TuffCab type of coating over Ronseal wood filler or wood glue? Any issues with adhesion? Update: last Saturday I got the VonHaus router (yay!) and rounded all the edges. The neighbours probably hate me but the little cab starts to look nice... Currently glueing an extra piece of 6mm MDF the front baffle. This will make the front baffle 18mm thick.

Thanks everyone, there is some beefy information here. So the manufacturer response is measured in free air and doesn't imply that the driver can't go below that range. The little guy is coming together, It's made of 12mm softwood ply, as one of the requirements of this project was to have a lightweight cab. It looks like a good size for my TC electronic amp. Will have to cut a second hole for the port, round the corners and proceed with the finish. Re the finish, is there any particular treatment you would recommend to make the softwood more solid? I'm going to apply Duratex on the outside, but would it be worth applying on the inside a coat of 70/30 water and wood glue? - Tuning: to get a 53hz tuning I would need a vent approx 67x140mm. I wanted to use a plastic pipe, but I found the Monacor BR-70 which is basically spot on what I'm looking for, 67x 139.5mm. Only problem is for some reason the cross area in cm2 is higher. Is it because of the flared end? Does that change my tuning frequency compared to a straight tube?

Manufacturer specs Thanks Phil, useful info. that was the general feeling, it's easy to get this 8" driver to go low, lower than most 12s actually, but not as loud. Which makes it perfect for a bedroom / practice cab. General question, am I correct assuming that I shouldn't be concerned about the excursion at 40hz? As I am at -9db there the driver won't probably cover it. But low E is at 41hz so should I look at the excursion at that point to define the max displacement? Also, what's the general opinion about port placement at the back? From what I learned in subwoofer building is that the port at the back should be ok, as long as it's not in the middle (you can't see the speaker magnet, roughly). Is it worth placing the speaker a bit offset in the front panel or make the cab a bit taller to avoid vibrations due to frequencies bouncing around? I'm thinking of an enclosure of 31cm (W) x 31cm (H) x 28cm (D) so front panel is a square.

So the LaVoce is now going back to the seller for an exchange. @stevie it was from toutlehautparleur so as far as I know still no UK distributor. I didn't think that the frequency shape would be so unpleasant for my ear, most of the neo speakers I've seen have that response and I thought it was normal. Unfortunately I think this also excludes the Eminence 2512 II due to the similar response. So I'm now looking into another 12" with a slightly more flat response. I noticed the FaitalPro 12PR300 models really well, does anyone know it? The 15 is used in the Mesa Subway cab. The 12 is what looks like an Eminence with larger magnet. Anyway, I'm now modeling the Faital 12PR300 (neo), 12PR310 (ferrite), and 12PR320 (neo) all 8ohms all with 55hz tuning. 12PR300 and 12PR310 model pretty similar, with F3 of 55hz while the 12PR320 has a lower F3 but more boomy around 80hz in this cab. The first two will take about 160w, but the PR320 will take 300w at this tuning. 12PR300 in green, 12PR310 in blue, 12PR320 in purple

Hi everyone, I recently replaced the speaker in my Fender Rumble 15W (sealed) with a LaVoce NBASS8. I now would like to take that speaker and put it in a small DIY vented cab. I created a project in WinISD and I'm satisfied with the results using a 20litres box (0.7ft3) and 52hz tuning frequency. This gives me an F3 of 50hz but the frequency range of the speaker is rated 55hz-3000hz. Does that mean that I'm not actually going to get the F3 that WinISD is showing? Thanks!

Hi guys, after spending some time trying the LaVoce I noticed that it produces a lot more percussive noise when I slap compared to the original ashdown blueline (came with the cab) and the Celestion BL12. It is a little bit unpleasant (sounds like when a beginner tries to slap in the wrong spot of the string instead of the last fret of the neck) but not a disaster, as I can adjust the technique or lower the hi-mid and treble on the amp. I'm wondering what could be causing it? Looking at the frequency graphs above I don't see too much of a difference in db and hz between the Celestion and the LaVoce, with spikes at similar frequencies and similar db. Could it be a different response between Neo and ferrite magnets? Did anyone find differencies between ferrite magnets and, let's say, the Deltalite 2512-II? When I looked at this project in WinIsd I focused a lot on getting the response on the low end and just look at the graphs for the high freq response, but it all seemed normal. So I'm not really sure if some parameters of frequencies make this speaker not ideal for bass. Any idea?

I had the time to test further the Celestion BL12-200x (same as Pulse 12) and the LaVoce WSN.122.50 Before I go into details, below the frequency graphs Celestion LaVoce WSN122.50 The main difference is that the LaVoce covers more frequencies, it goes a bit lower and overall feels also brighter, more open and snappier. I think this is mainly due to the neo magnet providing different characteristics to the speakers. the graphs shows a peak around 2k of 6-7db so that plays a big part. The Celestion sounds just a bit darker and overall feels a little harder to push. Almost like there was a cloth in front of the speaker. It also has a bit of a boom when I play around the 10th fret of the low E, nothing particularly harsh but I can feel it, and the graphs actually shows it. These two speakers are probably at the opposite sides of the 12 inches speakers, with the Celestion probably more suitable for rock and the Lavoce more for genres with a lot of slap. I'll be switching between the two to see what I like most. I wasn't able to try the B&C 12CL64 as it was more suitable to smaller cabs, but I think it's probably quite similar to the LaVoce. The B&C frequency response shows a similar peak around 2k, although a bit less pronounced than the LaVoce. The LaVoce is a generic speaker (they have a line specific for bass but they didn't model the same as the WSN122.50), and potentially it's developed as a PA speaker. Is there a particular reason that makes PA speakers unsuitable for bass? Is it just the potential to go as low as 50hz or other reasons? Just wondering if I'll be likely to blow the LaVoce quickly... Thanks!

I have some updates! The scope of my project was to create a compact 1x12 cab for bedroom and rehearsals in a funk band. I ended up with a design around 1.7 - 2 cubic feet - depending on the speaker. Living in London I struggle to find space to build the cab myself, so I picked up a used Ashdown VS112 which had very similar specs to my design, with 1.9 cubic feet internal volume. I still want to experiment with speakers and specifically with the ones I liked the responses of: Celestion Pulse 12 and some others NEO speakers (lighter so better portability) such as the B&C 12CL64 and LaVoce WSN122.50. LaVoce went on my list almost by coincidence, I noticed that Orange use this brand in their bass cabs so I modelled a few speakers including the NBASS series and WSN122.50. The WSN122.50 turned out to be quite similar to the B&C with a nice and flat response, but the LaVoce can go a bit lower, has a flatter response but it's a couple of db less loud in the midrange. Below the WinISD models in a 1.9 ft3 cab. GREEN - LaVoce WSN122.50 RED - Celestion Pulse 12 GREY - B&C 12CL64 MAX SPL MAX Power The B&C would probably have a flatter response with a 1.6 ft3 box as recommended, the LaVoce looks like the one with the flattest response, whilst both can take a bit over 200W of power. The Pulse 12 has a peak around 100hz but can take around 100w. I picked up a Pulse 12 on eBay and I'll also purchase a LaVoce to compare which type of speaker I like more, flat or with a peak around 100hz. Do you think those 2db difference between the B&C and LaVoce are going to be noticeable?

Hi guys, I've been really busy and didn't reply back in the thread. I have anyway done more homework adding the B&C 12CL64 to the mix (thanks Phil for the shout earlier in the thread) and realised an issue with the designs above: the max power that a single 12" can take in a vented cab. In winISD simulations above the Celestion and the Eminence can take only around 120W. I recently purchased a TC Electronics BQ250 (250W) so the risk of overpushing the driver is a concern. The B&C 12CL64 recommends a 64hz tuning frequency and 1.4 ft3 cab ( 39 liters) which makes it really good for a small cab design. I then simulated in WinISD the response with 1.5 ft3 cab and 65hz tuning for all the drivers. The Max power graphs slightly improved for The Celestion and Eminence with the results below Celestion Pulse in BLUE, Eminence Beta 12A in GREEN and B&C 12CL64 in GREY The B&C looks really impressive IMO, as it is the loudest of the 3, has a flat frequency response, is able to take a max of 250 W across the whole freq range, and compared to the Eminence and Celestion has an extra db around 60-80hz I'm aware that At this tuning frequency the peak over 100hz is more pronounced for the Emi and the celestion, but is there a recommendation in terms of what frequencies are more desirable in a bass cab? Earlier in the thread it was mentioned the range around 60-90hz, but there was also a suggestion to look at a peak around 100hz.

I have also modeled these speakers on a 36 liters cab (I'm looking for a compact size) tuned at 48hz.

Hi guys, so I have officially hit a dead end and I'm really confused. I'm not really too sure what to look at when evaluating a speaker. From what I understand I can afford to lose some db below 50hz and create a little bump around 100hz. This can be shaped with volume of the enclosure and tuning freq. Over 100hz, the higher the max SPL line the better, because it means the speaker is more efficient (louder). At this point I need to check the frequency graph from the manufacturer to check the response at around 2000hz, a spike here gives an aggressive (oldschool) tone. The speaker I'm looking for will be used mainly for 70% practice (bedroom/garage) and 30% rehearsals. Now I have mainly four speakers left to choose from (mainly the first two) - Celestion Pulse 12/ bl12-200x (RED) : doesn't excel but ticks all the boxes, decent loud, spike over 2khz, not too bassy. - Beyma SM212 (BLUE): I see why a lot of DIYers like it, plenty of bass which will allow to make the enclosure as little as 35litres without compromising on bass. BUT, it doesn't have the spike at 2000hz, and I'm afraid it will sound too clinical/hi-fi. - Basslite s2010 (GREEN): this one was one of my first speaker considered, but when I modeled it I thought it looked terrible - the quietest of all, slight dip in the mids and oscillating spikes on the higher frequency. But a lot of people seem to love it and recommend it. Why? - Eminence Beta 12-A 2 (GREY): I recently discovered it, it's a PA speaker but recommended for bass too. it is super loud (max SPL 122!). Not my first choice, but an interesting one on the max SPL side. Here's the models all in the same box and tuning freq. PULSE 12 BEYMA SM212 BASSLITE S2010 Eminence 12-A 2 Am I likely to hear a big difference between the drivers? How do these graphs compare to the ideal frequency response? How do you judge these speakers?

I have to be honest, the response of the Beyma surprised me a bit, it is completely different from the other ones and the LF response is big. It almost feels like I have to contain the bass with the enclosure size rather than make it louder. I'll spend some time modelling this speaker in different enclosures - including the "easy 1x12 cab build" in the threads recommended above. I'm going through these threads and there is so much knowledge, thumbs up guys. I still think that value for money the Celestion has a lot to offer: controlled bass, little spike over 100hz and after 2khz. It is not the best in terms of efficiency and it will prefer a bigger cab but still looks like a good option, also considering I can find the old model BL12-200x for £60 delivered. The amp will output 200W at 4ohms, is there any particular difference if I choose a 4ohms speaker vs a 8 ohms?

First of all thanks a lot for all your input! I modeled the Pulse 12 (RED), the B&C 12CL64 (GREY) and the Beyma SM212 (GREEN) together. Same size box (2.1 ft3) tuned at 48hz. wow the Beyma really is something else! Lots of bass.That's even more bass than the Eminence BP102, although it is balanced by more efficiency at the higher frequencies. Based on what was said above though, will the bass be too much, making the result a bit muddy? The Beyma and the B&C are one step higher than the Celestion, hence the higher price tag. To answer your question, I'm in the UK and so far I found these prices Celestion Pulse 12 - £70, Beyma SM212 - £92, B&C 12CL64 - £100 all including shipping. Please fire any comments on the graphs, I start getting slightly confused on how the speakers will sound. I think the Beyma will be the loudest across all frequencies, potentially with a balanced sound (no peaks), and can probably work well in a small-ish cab. B&C probably a bit brighter overall, with the low frequencies less prominent and the Celestion of course not as loud and more focused on the mid-low freq. The amp I'm going to get will output 200W at 4ohms. All these speakers are 8 ohms, which means my output will be half - 100W. Does this have any implication on the volume? Also does that mean - theoretically - that I can pair the amp with a 100W speaker at 8ohms? I will model the Faital tomorrow, and they also make a 4ohm version of the 12PR310

Thank you both for your answers, I'm learning a lot from this. I re-modeled the 3 speakers in a 2.1 ft3 cab (that's more or less the size I'm thinking of building) and a tuning frequency of 48hz. Colors are still the same so Pulse 12 in RED, Emi BP102 in GREEN and Emi S2010 in BLUE. Looking at the max SPL graph, as recommended, looks like the Pulse will output a few extra db than the other drivers, especially over 90hz, (apart from 48-58hzrange ). I have two questions at this point: 1) This doesn't seem to match with the transfer function magnitude data, am I reading these graphs wrong? Bill should I look only at the max SPL graph? 2) Is the lower db in the lower frequencies going to be noticeable? Phil I didn't quite get what your preference is I think it might be the Pulse

Hi there, so I did my homework and modeled the 3 speakers as follow Pulse 12 - RED - Cab volume 3 ft3, tuning freq 48hz Eminence BP102 - GREEN - Cab volume 2 ft3, tuning freq 40hz (as reccomended by eminence design) Eminence Basslite S2010 - BLUE - Cab volume 1.7 ft3, tuning freq 50hz (as recommended by Eminence design) Looking at the transfer function magnitude, seems like the Eminence BP102 can go low with an F3 of 40hz. The basslite S2010 doesn't have a great bottom end (could it be the neodymium magnet?) end and the Pulse 12 is in between the two with an F3 of 48hz. What else can you guys see from the Max SPL graph? Also here the frequency graphs Eminence BP102 PULSE 12 Eminence S2010 Noticeable for frequency above 2khz a roll off for the BP102, whereas the other two have a little spike around 2500hz. What do you guys think? How can this translate to real world applications? Thanks

I am actually familiar with WinISD, as I built a ported hi fi subwoofer, so hopefully there shouldn't be too many problems with that...

Hi everyone, I'm looking to get my first bass and I'm going to make a diy cab. I'm actually a guitar player and I'm in full GAS for this purchase already, but I need some advice. I'm mainly going to practice at home for now but I would still like to buy a decent product that I don't have to change down the line if I decide to use it for practice with other instruments. I'm looking to build a small-ish cab (1x10 or 1x12) that provides a nice tone at low volumes but could keep up in bigger situation. Will mainly play funk and potentially some rock. It will be used with a TC electronics BAM200 so looking for a 200W speaker. So far I looked at these speakers: Eminence Legend bp102 - Range 40hz-2000hz, Fs 35hz, XMax 6.2mm, 4ohms, 200W. I almost wanted to buy one second hand barely used for £40, I like Eminence and they provide build recommendations too, but I'm a bit worried about the frequency drop at 2khz making it too dark and boomy. It seems like this speaker likes big boxes and I'm not sure it will be too good for a compact cab I would like to build. Celestion Pulse 12 - Range 40hz-3500hz, Fs 45hz, XMax 4mm, 8ohms, 200w. It has a decent resonant frequency unlike the smaller brother pulse 10 and good frequency range. But celestion seems really popular for guitar speakers, not bass. Price £70. Eminence basslite S2010: range 49hz-4500hz, Fs 46hz,XMax 4mm, Neo. 150W 8ohms. It's a neo speaker with extra clarity, and was looking for a 4ohms 200W speaker. considering the amp will output 100W at 8ohms though this could work. So, in a nutshell I was about to buy the legend bp102 for £40, but because of the frequency range I'm considering the pulse 12 for £70, but at this point I'm wondering if it makes sense to go up to £75 in case this could be a definitive speaker. Considering I'll play at home volumes, am I likely to spot differences between the speakers? Any experience or recommendations you can share? Thanks