sebpalmer

I'm posting this a bit late... but, hey, whatever: I hadn't heard of Chris Dave until only a short while before this gig, when I interviewed Matt Johnson, drummer on Jeff Buckley's 'Grace'. When talking about influences, and his favourite drummers, etc., Matt mentioned that Chris Dave was the local drumming talent when he was coming up. The trio - advertised as having a guitarist (yes, Zhenya was last minute dep) - played two nights at CW's. I was there 1st night, and even provided Chris with bongos: this film must be the 2nd night as I don't recognise those bongos, or the stand (bought at Foote's earlier that day!). www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ5eduwP-4U This was my favourite piece, 'cause I love both Mystic Brew & Nefertiti! I was actually at the gig in a semi-official capacity, with the aim of either simply covering the event for Drummer mag, who I write for, or, better still, interviewing Chris. Sadly, I was so intimidated by the combo of their stand-offish vibe, and the intensity of their playing that when they finished, I just took my bongos and split. Damn! what a wasted opportunity. Mind you, Chris - undeniably amazing drummer that he is - didn't make himself approachable. The contrasts with the experience of seeing and interviewing Matt Johnson and seeing but not interviewing Chris Dave... well, I don't know what to think or say!? The gig had a similar effect on me!

Hi guys, Thanks for these further replies. @ blinddrew: thanks for the suggestion. It's similar to the 'fix it in the mix' stuff I'm already tinkering with. But the bottom line for me is that I want to capture a better, fuller sound to start with, and then treat it as little as possible. But I might give it a try, and thanks for the suggestion. @ thisnameistaken: hey man, don't worry… not offended in the least. But it [i]does[/i] sound a tad patronising! I have an electric bass, and I use that when I want that kind of sound. I know and love the sound of double bass, having fallen in love with the 'bull fiddle' way back in my childhood, aged 7 or 8. I can even recall the albums that got me hooked: David Grisman's 'Hot Dawg', and Ry Cooder's 'Jazz', which even features occasional tuba in place of string bass. It's not only the sounds of such bassists as Jim Hughart with Tom Waits, or Ron Carter with everyone from Miles to Alice Coltrane, that inform my choices, but even the bass parts I've [i]already recorded myself[/i], with other basses/bassists. The key difference when I listen to the latter, which sound just peachy to me, is that they all had pickups. When I listen to those recordings, and solo the two double bass tracks - one is a mic on the neck, the other the DI - the neck mic' has some bass, but it's the finger sounds and the air in the room that this channel crucially captures, for me, whilst the DI/pickup channel has what I call the 'beef' or 'body'. The quickest solution to my need for decent double bass parts on the tracks I'm recording would be to hire a good bassist, and I know plenty. But I love the bass, so much so I bought one, even it is a cheap one, and I want to learn to play it better myself… plus I'm an out of control megalomaniac control freak! Really what I'm after in posting here is advice on the best pick-up on a tight budget! But thanks for all the input, whatever it may be. 'Tis much appreciated. Cheers Seb

Murky buckets, mon-sewer I've changed it now. Smileys? Fun!? 'Bar, handbag!' as ol' Eb' Stooge might've said

That smiley was supposed to be letter 'b' & a bracket!

Hi fellas, And many thanks for all the responses. The first thing I ought to say is that my cheap beginners bass is probably about matched to my abilities: it's not a beautiful instrument, and I can't play it very well! By way of comparison, my primary drum kit - and the one I usually record with - has a value well in excess of 20 x that of this bass. And I know where the money went; it's a beauty, and sounds at least as good, nay, better even, than it looks. If bass was my primary instrument I'd doubtless invest the equivalent (in the fullness of time, I'll certainly want a better instrument, but for now I'll have to make do with what I've got!). And 'Bilbo', I realise I'm not going to sound like Pattituci …on any bass! The reason for including that clip was, a ) it's fun to watch a master at work, and b ) the principle he's demonstrating is, in essence, the same as my aim: he's seeking to emulate the acoustic sound, via an amp, whilst I'm seeking to transfer my (admittedly poxy) acoustic sound into the digital domain. I feel that somewhere along the chain of my recording process I'm effectively losing some of the fullness of the instruments sound. To 51m0n I'd have to say - as well as thanks for a very detailed and interesting response, which I will most certainly be acting upon*, and with the caveat that in addition to not really being a bassist, I'm hardly a seasoned recording engineer either (plus my recording room is a tiny little box!) - that, having recorded several bassists (in addition to my 'umble self), some with pick-ups, and some without, it's always been the case that the sessions where there was a pick-up channel (I've always also used a mic as well, for the air in the room and the fingerboard sounds) have resulted in a fuller, phatter bottom end, with more audible sustain. So, as well as practising like a proper b*stard, and experimenting with mic positions, etc., I'll definitely be trying out some form of pick-up. Alistair and Bilbo, thanks for your pick-up tips. I might visit to Maplin, or perhaps I'll be braver and splash out on the K&K Dbl Big Twin. Hmmm!? Either way, thanks, it gives me some options to think about. * Simon, I checked a couple of my recent 'bull fiddle' recordings, re mic phase problems: I definitely have much more bass when the two channels are playing simultaneously, so I don't think I'm losing anything. Does that mean, therefore, that my mics are okay phase-wise? I'll be checking back of course, to see how this thread is developing and if anyone else has chipped in. Thanks again, Regards Seb BTW Bilbo, are you not the same Rob Palmer as wot writ a book on Paul Chambers, and I played with ages ago on Myke Clifford's Jimmy Smith night in Bury? Oh, and you depped with Capricorn… didn't'cha!

Newbie: hello / recording my Antoni DB Hello I just joined basschat.co.uk, and after posting an initial message in the 'introductions' section of the forum was directed here. I'm primarily a drummer. But I've always loved double-bass, and, having played guitar and bass since my teens, I finally acquired a 1/2 size Antoni upright, via a bassist/sax player I was playing with at the time. I paid £150 for the instrument, which, I've subsequently learned, was probably a pretty good deal. Cosmetically the bass is pretty good, save for a rather ugly looking loss of colour on the neck, rather strangely located at the high end, near (but not under) the low E string. Also, under the strings at the bottom end of the neck - where I play it most - the paint/laquer (or whatever they use to make the neck black) is wearing away in grooves. I wasn't given a bow when I bought the bass, and I only play in a jazz/folk finger style. I play the bass for pure pleasure, almost solely at home, and largely on my own. This mostly comprises either just plain playing with myself (fnnnaaarrr, chuckle, etc.), jamming along to favourite tunes, or - and this is why I'm posting - recording bass parts on my home recordings. I've only recorded about 5-6 pieces using the bass since I bought it. But I'm starting to use it more and more frequently. Currently I'm recording a version of John Martyn's Solid Air with it. The issue I'm finally confronting is this: as limited as my own abilities may be, I'm enjoying the performance side of what I'm accomplishing. But I'm far from satisfied with the sound. Isolated, the bass tracks sound pretty nice to me. But 'in the mix' they seem to lose any rich bottom end and sustain. I've been experimenting with compression, EQ, and even some bass-enhancing plug-ins, all of which help improve the sound to some extent. But I reckon the key issue is that I don't have a pick up: I record with a C-1000 pointed at the fingerboard, and an AT-4033a pointed towards the bridge/f-holes. I've recorded other double basses before, which had pick ups, and it seems to me the real 'body' of the sound - the fat, rich, low-end, and the beef of the sustain, came via the pick-ups. Whereas the mic on the neck would provide the air and some of the fingerstyle timbres that I love so much. So, I'm looking to buy an affordable double bass pick-up. I can see they range from the Shadow, around £35/40, via the K&K models, to things like the Realist (which seems to be around £150/160) and the various and even pricier Accusound models. Given what i paid for the bass, the Realist and Accusounds seem too pricey to me. But on the other hand, I don't want to waste money on something cheap an nasty. Looking on Thomann I see that they have the following prices (all approx): Shadow SH-SB2 - £35 K&K Big Twin - £50 K&K Double Big Twin - £90 K&K Bass Max - £100 Realist (copper) - £160 There are of course others, Fishman, Up- (or is it Under-)woods… the mind boggles! Listening to clips on Youtube is confusing. One of the best videos I saw during my researches was John Patittuci on the realist SoundClip: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNQclaAmyX8[/media] ... where he's talking about exactly what I want to achieve - a natural (but full) sound - , albeit he's talking about achieving this with an amp, and I'm after attaining the same goal, but in a recording scenario, using one mic on the neck and a DI from the pickup into my MOTU 828 into Logic. I read that the K&K Bass Max model might involve some alteration to the bridge to make it fit, which kind of puts me off. Budget wise I lean towards the Big Twin. But, after listening to various comparisons, etc., on YouTube I'm just very, very confused. Can you guys help? Cheers Seb

Hey folksh, thanks for the friendly welcome. Glad to see there other 'skin-spankers' infiltrating... I ought to get 'Dyno' Rod Norman on here (maybe he already is?): drummer and plumber extraordinaire, and also a very fine bassist. Right, I'll go post my questions in the DB/EUB zones, and see what kind of response I get. And thanks to Marc for the pointer to K&K gear, I'll check 'em out. Up till now I've mostly heard about the rather pricey 'Realist', and the even more expensive Accusound gear. Cheers Seb

Hi I'm new to the forum. Although primarily a drummer, I write and record songs in my home studio, and often play the bass parts myself. My two basses are a Squier Fender Jazz and a 1/2 sized acoustic upright bass. Leaving aside my playing abilities on these instruments, the reason I joined is because Im getting increasingly frustrated with what i can achieve using my double bass. It has a label inside saying Antoni (made in China), and only cost me £150, with a green soft-case gig-bag. I looked on Amazon and eBay, and saw the same sort of bass for anything from £479.99 (rrp £699.99) new, on Amazon, to a sale on eBay of a fairly knackered sounding one for £60 (also with gig bag, and even a bow, which my £150 purchase didn't include... harumph!). I record it using two mics, usually a C-1000 pointed at the fingerboard, and an AT4033a pointed at the bridge/f-hole area. I don't have any kind of pick up on it. There are a number of things I'd like to find out: 1) best mic placements to improve the sound I'm currently able to capture. 2) recommendations for affordable pick-ups (piezos on the bridge I'm assuming?). 3) thoughts on whether I ought to just get a better bass... If I were to go the third route, I'd want to go for a 3/4 size I think. It'd take me a bit of time to save the lolly required. I reckon my budget would probably be about a grand all in, inc. any costs like pick-up and set-up. Anyhoo... there you have it. I hope you guys might have some pearls of wisdom for me. Cheers Seb

Hi Tiago. I just joined this group today! Good to see you here. I'm here to find out how to get a decent double bass, or possibly a better sound from the one I already have. The one I already own I bought a few years back for £150, and I have loads of fun playing and recording with it. I just get sad when I listen to the playback! And that's not just because I'm not really a bass player as such (as limited as my abilities are, I thoroughly enjoy what I'm doing), it's more 'cause it's a cheap aulde bass! Anyhoo, hello olde froot ;-) The Sebster