Misdee

I've already spent way too much time fiddling with this Online Configurator. No doubt I will spend a lot more yet.

It's a brilliant marketing tool, as much as anything else.  A lot of bass players thinking and talking about EBMM Stingray basses. A very canny move by EBMM, providing it translates to increased sales.

I still think the choice of colours is a bit off, though, in so much as if you don't like satin finishes(I don't) or sparkle finishes(do I look like Liberace?) then your options are a bit limited. I still can't get a traditional white Stingray with a maple  fingerboard, black scratch plate and chrome hardware i.e the classic plastic toilet seat bass.

14 hours ago, AndyTravis said:

The 414 and 415/614/615 have shallower necks too…

 

hence my 414 stays 

The 20/10 series definitely do have a very different neck profile to previous Yamaha basses. It's a bit bigger overall but that's a result of the design brief at the time, which was to design the ultimate BB bass for modern rock bassists. I've got little hands (I wear small size underpants too) but I find the neck on my 2024x perfectly playable.

The  more traditional classic Yamaha shallow oval neck profile with a 40mm nut width is supremely comfortable though, it has to be said.

14 hours ago, MrDinsdale said:

Is the 1024x a worthy upgrade to the 424x for an extra £150-175ish?

I've never played a 1024x, but if it's anything like the 2024x then yes it's a big upgrade on the 424x. 

The 424 was, from memory, a decent bass don't get me wrong. But the 20 and more affordable 10 range version made in Indonesia were a pretty epic design with a  unique tone. I never played the 1024 version but I've got a 2024x that I bought fourteen years ago when they first came out and it's a superb bass. The 1024x is supposed to be very similar, so I would recommend it on that basis.

 The 2024X certainly doesn't sound muddy or dark to me, not do the 1024 basses I've seen on YouTube, but tone is a very subjective thing in terms of description. I would charactarise the 2024 tone as being like a cross between a Fender, a Spector NS2 and a Wal. Seriously, it's that good. There's a consistent punch in the midrange that makes it stand out like a foghorn. It's got the depth of an active bass whilst having all the positive attributes of a passive instrument.

The 1024 is supposed to be the same bass built in Indonesia, although if you want to get specific, the pickups and hardware are replicas made for that version, not the exact same one as was fitted on the Japanese-made basses. Also, the Indonesian basses didn't have I.R.A or A.R.E treatment. If that makes any difference.

I've had a bit of a go in the last few days and my spec comes out roughly the same as a standard Stingray Special once it's shipped to the UK with duty and VAT ect. Not that bad. I really fancy one.

I'm still not that mad about most of the colours though.  They seem to given folk a wider choice of hideous to choose from. 

I've eaten pizza at some of the most highly regarded purveyors of the craft in Italy, USA ect. Some were really good, some were very overrated. The best by far, however, was made by some Turkish people in Sheffield at a little local takeaway. I took friends from NYC and Chicago there and they were blown away by it, too.

Similarly, a certain strata of British foodie is preoccupied with finding authentic Indian food. In India and Pakistan however, they couldn't care less about such bourgeois ideas and are quite happy to adapt their own cuisine to incorporate modern influences, providing the results are tasty.

I'm not convinced by the idea that"authenticity" is the ultimate goal when it comes to any kind of food. It's a very middle class obsession, born out of self-doubt. So enjoy your chicken tikka meatball and spaghetti nan bread pizza without guilt. Put couscous on it too if you like, if you live in North London.

12 hours ago, Barking Spiders said:

There's long been an anti-'intellectual' prejudice, not just the right wing press but across UK society at large, which doesn't exist across western Europe. Take opera for example. Here it's 'music for snobs' but in Italy (which I know best) it's for everyone and anyone. There there's no association between high art and  social class. In France, which I've also lived in, there are living philosophers that are near household names. It most definitely is a British disease. Maybe it's similar in other anglophone countries I can't say. There you go, If I was overheard saying 'anglophone' in an English pub I'd get my head kicked in. As for 'boffins' that equates with nerd and geek in the UK and the US (or whatever the equivalent of boffins is) for that matter. Look at some English phrases e.g. 'smart Alec', 'too clever by half', these are perjoratives (now I've gone and done it).  Going back to music, it's quite depressing too be reminded how Oasis and Spice Girls fever gripped the general British public back in the 90s a time when 'Jack the lad' publications like Loaded and FHM were go-to reading for males under 30.

I love this post.

On the subject of Oasis, have you noticed how the British media have cultivated Noel Gallagher's grandiose delusions by appointing him as a spokesman for a whole host of social and cultural topics. Music, football, politics, marriage, crime, you name it. Noel is invited to share his very definite and forthright opinions expressed in his own  inimitable way. His diatribes usually begin with " No one can tell me, right that...".

I expect no one can tell Noel much, especially people better informed, better educated and more intelligent than him. That's why the British public identify with his persona. To Noel the world is a very definite place and that certainty is hugely reassuring to some people.

 Now I've got that off my chest, could I just point out that Waterfront by Simple Minds is more than just that one note shuffle in so much as there's overdubbed fretless bass interspersed throughout the track. Great song, superb bass player.

NSD certainly has it's moments. I really like the title track and Hard Road. Probably fair to say that it's what could have been a really good album that was ruined to a  certain extent by what the band had been through by that time and the state they were in by the time they recorded it.

Well, there's no bad Geezer Butler bass playing, but for me the Heaven And Hell/Mob Rules era was his zenith. 

I have always thought the albums after Paranoid up until when Dio joined the band really suffered from Geezer's bass being way too indistinct and lost in the mix. You can hardly hear what he's doing most of the time. The first two albums and then the ones from Heaven And Hell onwards you can make out every note.

I think a lot of folks who are critical of the Bongo's looks haven't seen one in the flesh. The 3D chamfering of the body and semi-arch top blend beautifully with the angular lines, to my taste anyway.

It was a shock to me that so many people find the looks of that bass so objectionable. When I first saw an image of the  Bongo when they first came out I thought EBMM would struggle to keep up with demand. 

I really like how the Bongo looks, and I also like the way it sounds how it looks; unique.

23 hours ago, Leonard Smalls said:

Depends on your definition.

What for one person is a bit of mild frottage is for others a full-blown bag-over-the-head-and-a-bottle-of-poppers-cuffed-to-a-radiator scenario!

What fills me with horror for any solo is where the band leave the stage, put on a bath and a baked potato leaving said muso (whether he/she/it are bass, guitar, drums, whatever) to fill the time with a cacophony of a-musical onanism. Like that Cliff bloke out of off of Metallica who seems to be so revered! It's only forgivable if it's completely amazing - frinstance I saw Sheila E do a percussion solo for about 10 minutes which had at least 2 minutes on the triangle, and it was awesome - or completely hilarious - like Nigel Tuffnell and his violin-guitar thang.

As for bass solos, I absolutely love a good funk-bass one... Like the one Big Tony does for Trouble Funk. It's there to complement the song, and it's groovy, entertaining and full of showmanship. 

 

Wow, Trouble Funk! I hadn't thought about them in years! I'm having an '80's flashback! I also remember seeing Chuck Brown And The Soul Searchers on The Tube about  that time and being really taken with the whole Go Go swing thing in general.

That PRS bass  Big Tony is playing sounds great, too. They ought to make them like that now. I remember playing a couple in shops at the time. Three pickups and a very gutsy tone. That Gary Grainger bass they make now is lovely but the overall  sound is a bit too scooped-out for my taste.

I am familiar with both these basses and there's pros and cons to either. 

The Fender sounds hefty with the active EQ and P/H pickup configuration.  It does classic Fender tone with a bit of a modern twist. It does not however, sound much like a Stingray on the rear humbucker. It's much more of a chunky Fender tone than the  typical scooped-out Music Man zing. The early model of that bass ( late90's early 2000's) had a very big chunky neck, but the one pictured looks to have a narrower nut width. It's worth investigating if the neck profile suits you, though.

The Bongo is an entirely different proposition. It's a big, beefy and very modern tone with loads of punch and attitude. On the five string model though, I would be aware that the G string  is usually very close to the edge of the fingerboard and has a tendency towards slipping off the edge. It's a major irritation to a lot of players, myself included. The 17.5mm string spacing is also a little tight to some people. Other than those idiosyncrasies it's a superb bass.  Sounds as good if not better than any modern boutique bass on the market in my opinion. If you specifically want a modern non-Fender kind of sound it's a very good proposition.

On 17/03/2024 at 20:07, Bassfinger said:

 

The great man said words to the effect that Jaco wasn't a musician, he was a dilettante.

That's a bit like Bez offering a critique of Mozart.

I'm so tempted to reel off a list of bassists who are chronically overrated, not least of all by themselves, but for once I am going to try and be nice.

Suffice to say then, that in any music  there is a huge gap between having the knowledge and manual dexterity to execute the playing and having the necessary imagination to create meaningful work that will speak to others on a deep level. YouTube is awash with musos who have great ability who will never be significant artists in their own right because they have no idea how to do something interesting with what they have learnt.

There's also loads of famous  and semi-famous bass players who  can't play effectively because they are fundamentally not very good at playing the instrument but have garnered a disproportionate reputation as a bass player through means other than their musical ability. 

I have owned a wide array of supposedly top quality basses over the years and Japanese-made Yamaha's are up there with the absolute best. The construction quality is as good as it gets and the designs are really clever. And it's always been that way.  More than 40 years ago Yamaha solved the issue of the inherent imbalance between the P and J pickups. Not many other bass builders have managed the same trick even now.

The BB2000 is an intrinsically lively sounding bass, but in a good way, I hasten to add. If I were to analyse it I would say that compared to a traditional Fender-style PJ bass the BB basses have a much wider frequency range, I.e the bass goes deeper and the treble much higher. There's a Fender lurking in there somewhere but it's just one element of the unique BB tone. 

3 hours ago, Cairobill said:

After a while away from the wild world of BBs (my '87 BB3000A has bounced around a couple of players on the forum since I sold it in 2020) I have another one coming my way. A passive one this time. The 8 1/2 lbs BB3000A was one of the finest built basses I've ever owned but the sound was a bit polite. This one has the pickups on the wonk , was born in '82 and will doubtless be a beefier customer...

Yamaha, like Fender, has never really excelled when it comes to active circuits (with the very notable notable exception of the NE 1). 

 By the late 1980's the idea that active basses were inherently superior was pretty much received wisdom. Yamaha were just catering to a trend by offering the active option rather than addressing any deficiency in the original model. In reality the BB3000 was just fine as it was. No need to mess with it. A truly classic bass.

Like so many things in life, I wish I had known back then what I know now, because in those days I wouldn't have looked at a Yamaha bass, based purely on my prejudices and preconceptions.

Sadowsky offer something similar with their Super P and Super J pickups. The Sadowsky pickups sound very good to me and would be my first choice.

I have no idea which came first, the Sims or Sadowsky or how similar they are in reality, and then there's the Fishman Fluence pickups that are also similar in certain respects to these Sims. 

However, I am in total agreement that  versatility is of exaggerated importance. Most players just find a good sound from a bass and use it. That's what's so great about a Precision, a Jazz and a Stingray. You can find a sound on any of those basses that will sound good with any combination of fingers, pick or slap playing without having to change any settings while you are playing.

On 05/02/2024 at 17:57, iconic said:

According to Davide Romani (Change et al) basically anything Chic was recorded in the studio with Bernard Edwards on...... a Fender P.

 

Anything played on TV or in concert was played for looks, Stingray, BC Rich, Jazz, Sadowsky etc. 

 

Bernard Edwards and Davide Romani were great friends during the Chic days, shared studio time and session singers/players when needed. 

 

Ohh, and that oft quoted comment of not knowing what strings were on his bass? Just BE being witty, but went completely over the interviers head. Bernard and Nile were grade A anoraks when it came to production. Again, Mr Romani. 

I  too roll my eyes every time someone trots out that old story originally told by Nile Rogers about Bernard Edwards being so cool because he didn't know what kind of strings came as stock on a new Music man bass and he had never changed them. So what? Of course he hadn't changed them, they were flat wounds and he was featuring that sound on big hit records.

 He subsequently did change to round wounds on that bass by the time of the third Chic album in 1980. People don't tell that part of the story quite so much.

Considering how much ghost notes and muting were part of Bernard's signature style it's not that surprising that he could sound like himself regardless of what bass and what strings he was using. I can see how a P Bass would suit him just as well as a Stingray.

It just shows how much tastes can differ because I am not at all keen on Fender-style basses with exotic wood finishes. They don't fulfill the traditional Fender aesthetic, but because they are essentially Fender designs they aren't really boutique basses either, no matter what fancy wood you use. They end up being neither one thing or the other.

Burl maple is a beautiful wood, but these basses will probably sound like any old Jazz Bass, albeit a pretty good one I would hope considering the price they will retail for.

 The new Stingray Specials solve a lot of the ergonomic shortcomings of the older Stingrays. They also sound magnificent and EBMM have addressed the problem of the weak G ect with the introduction of the neodymium pickup. Specials are light and comfortable to play with a powerful and punchy tone, everything you could want from a Stingray. 

Some folks think the Specials sound slightly mellower than the older Stingrays but all I can say is that to my ears the Specials are still very aggressive sounding basses if you want to use them that way. I used to have a very nice pre-EBMM Stingray and I don't remember it sounding significantly better (or even much different) to my Stingray Special.

I think Jonas is one of those exceptional players who has very definite ideas about what he wants, but his choices and preferences are not necessarily that suited to the mainstream.

29 minutes ago, three said:

I’d no idea re: Wal and the Hellborg power amp. Fascinating and I wonder if it remains in place? I’ve had quite a few of these amps and still have one. Massively heavy and according to a well known studio tech, the most over-built power amp he’d seen. That said, they are not at all a transparent amp - there’s a gritty baked-in tone that surprised me initially, to the extent that I thought it was a fault. Four or five units later, it’s evident that the grit is designed-in. I wonder whether this has any influence on the calibration of contemporary Wal electronics? Back on topic, i’ve watched in awe at the stratospheric price increases. I’ve owned a few Wals and played a lot (I’m a fan of the tone and the v profile, especially on the earlier basses) but found them a little uncomfortable, and in some respects a bit agricultural. The prices in the ‘90s - relative to other basses - seemed about right to me

The Hellborg amp at Wal headquarters back in the day isn't the Warwick-era version. It's a short-lived mid-1980's combo that I seem to remember was made in Italy. They had that amp in the workshop at High Wycombe back in the '80's. Jonas' had a signature bass made by an Italian company at that time too, might well have been the same company.

16 hours ago, drTStingray said:

Alan Spenner’s sound on Roxymusic albums (eg Avalon) is a classic Wal sound - makes use of the Q control (see also the Scotts Bass Lessons feature on them and on Flea - they also conclude the Q control gets that unique sound).

 

Otherwise, to me, they sound very Stingrayish (dual pick up version) or Sabre-like - perhaps a little more powerful. 
 

Re @Misdee query regarding Alan Spenner’s Wal, I saw him playing a gig at the beginning of the 80s with the Kokomo line up - during the gig he played a couple of solos one of which was slapped - I would say, from the sound, he was using roundwound strings. Also they covered a couple of Rose Royce songs and he got that Alembic type of sound famous on those later songs. From the mid 70s few people in the U.K. were interested in a flatwound bass sound (I don’t even remember them being readily available in shops) although its almost certain Bernard Edwards’ Stingray had the GHS flats which these shipped with until 1978 production (went to GHS rounds). His bass was/is a 77. 

I remember only too well how unwanted flat wound bass strings were back in the day. Most shops had Rotosound Jazz Bass flats in stock, from what I remember, just on the off chance a masochist walked in off the street wanting to restring his bass. I bought a set out of curiosity and found them completely unplayable. I didn't buy another set of flats for 30 years until I finally relented and got some Thomastiks about ten years ago.

I can easily envisage Alan Spenner using old rounds and making them sound akin to flats in certain situations, either intentionally or otherwise.

Re Bernard Edwards and the flats on his Stingray, he definitely changed to round wounds on that bass, I think after the second Chic album.

26 minutes ago, Chris2112 said:

 

I'm sure he could have had one with a graphite neck if he had wanted. It must be the case that he preferred wooden necks, although that odd semi-hollow six string he had made had a graphite neck and he never seemed to do much with it. That one ended up on sale on this forum and was around for a while before it sold. There were a few Hellborg basses made with graphite necks in later years although none with the 36v preamp as far as I know.

 

Indeed I'd never heard anything about his Status signature bass being designed to sound like a Wal. Surely, multicoil pickups and a filter preamp would be needed for that. The famed 36v preamp was inspired by his love of a Neve desk with a boatload of headroom. The Status pickups were very clear and rich sounding. Even though his Warwick signature sounded fantastic, his tone with the Status basses when he was playing live with Shawn Lane and Jeff Super in the mid 90's was by far his best. Some of the best bass tone ever put to record, I think. 

 

 

 

Rob made  Jonas' bass from Utile and included the switchable parametric sweepable mid control to try give the bass a similar tone to his Wal. Can't remember if it was Rob or Jonas who mentioned it, but it's was one of the other.

13 hours ago, matski said:

According to the Gallery's website that one is the Wal used by Nick Beggs for 'Too Shy'. I'm not convinced that that claim to fame is worth the extortionate markup.

 

That bass has been doing the rounds for years. I tried to buy it from someone in Norfolk in about 1995 from a classified advert in Melody Maker (those were the days...) but it had already sold. It was £500-ish, if I remember correctly. There was no mention of it being Nick Beggs old bass at that time, though. It's only subsequently that came to light.

5 minutes ago, Russ said:

I recall that his signature Status had crazy 36V electronics, with four batteries! I loved the design, with the downsized body - shame it was during Status' wooden neck phase (which they appear to have gone back to), would have loved to have seen one with a graphite neck. 

Rob went on to make a few with graphite necks as special orders.