PlungerModerno

1 week in, 5 - 7 weeks (estimated) to go!!!

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1334520531' post='1617204'] It's just ... Chinatown, Jake. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1yUvdQnERk[/media] [/quote] One of Zep's finest. Bonham was a beast, heavy groove and contagious feel. What makes him great IMO was he and JPJ worked together very well. The lemon song, Achillies last stand, there are lots of great examples. In my time of dying is a good one! EDIT: I'd be unable to appreciate Bonhams drumming half as much if it wasn't for the awsome combination with JPJ. I'll leave this here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyhu2ysqKGk

True. If it wasn't for the development of Very good PA systems and sound management... the old stacks weaknesses would be more obvious. a 215 or 412 stack can still be super legit, and indeed ideal. Stacks not Stax. I cannot say a bad thing about the late Duck dunn or Jackson Jr. Also the others were great too: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjmeoSL3Y3E[/media] OH and the rest of Sam and Dave: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG2vn7R6Mzs&feature=endscreen&NR=1[/media] Now that's a show I'd give a lot to see!!!

[quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1341072360' post='1713535'] This is similar to a post i've just done on another thread, I went into amusic shop with all the extra knowledge garnered off you fine people. I was talking to a saleman. I was looking at an Ashdown 4x10. He said if i buy it to then at a later date pair it with a 1x15 to get the low frequencies. i asked about what the frequency response of the cab was. He didn't know what it was, or meant i think, then went and looked it up on the internet. Thanks basschat!! [/quote] That's what you get with marketing logic. "But.... the famous people do it so it must be right!"

...Oh and thanks for the feedback everyone. I try to base my decisions on good info, but the fact is I'm no expert. And until I play through a mix of rigs I won't develop a good working knowledge. I've found 90% of what I need is practice, the other 10% is a mix of gear and creativity. But that's another discussion. Anyone got a time machine???? [url="http://img.qj.net/uploads/articles_module2/79451/CartmanWuvWii.jpg"]http://img.qj.net/up...rtmanWuvWii.jpg[/url] .....you guys! I'm seriously!

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1340923815' post='1711733'] Are you new to bass? Or just learning new stuff? Can't tell by your original post. Firstly, my advice would be to use your ears, and don't get too deep into specs of Amps and Cabs. The Markbass amps may well suit what you are after. Similarly something relatively inexpensive might suit. Eg, a TC Electronic BG250 combo, or Ampeg Portaflex rig. If you are interested in the GK and the zingy high end, you will miss some of that off with a BF Compact, as it doesn't have the tweeter. It is, IMO, a loud cab, but it seemed very low orientated to me. Others may disagree. A GK MB500 and a GK Neo 112-II x 2 would be a great setup. Have a shop around and think about what you want, what sound you like, then decide. If you want a more modern sparkly highs type tone, I'd suggest a tweeter in your cab and a cab that produces more of that sparkle. Just chiming in, as I've found its always best to just go with what 'sounds' right, rather than the specs on paper. [/quote] Good view... I am fairly new to bass... and completely new to amps and cabs. I have a 112 combo, tweeterless, and really miss the lows when I turn up (I have to cut lows to stop grumbling). I am definitely learning new stuff - but find the tweeteriffic tones, when recorded at least, to be less than assuring to me. I agree completely I could get good results with less, my reasoning being (i) I don't need to have such headroom right now. (ii) I don't need a very light rig because I'll likely only move it once a week. (iii) A good combo is way cheaper. The reason I'm not gunning for the above is I want something I can hang onto for a while. I like light, and loud. If I don't run it flat out no shame, I can get my ducks in a row and use it at a 'proper' volume in the future. It's a huge hassle for me to travel, then try a tiny range of amps and such... I probably will but know I'll have access to few options. I can return what I'm getting if it doesn't blow my socks off. I agree the mb500 + 212/2X112/412 rig is a monster. I may end up with something similar, but the weight will make it a second option.

[quote name='alstocko' timestamp='1340906961' post='1711428'] Get one then! [/quote] Ok! wait a minute..... I am certain it's a good choice, and will do what I need... I just love the GK fusion 550 preamp that the mb fusion has*.... at least from afar. *It has some changes, like non-motorized knobs! and the mb 500 D-class power section. [quote name='machinehead' timestamp='1340910346' post='1711485'] I think you made the right choice of the Compact over the Midget. I have both and both are really top notch cabs but the Compact is a better all-rounder and gives a little deeper/ smoother tone. You won't regret it. I do use the Midget on it's own in smaller pubs where space is tight and it more then copes without breaking a sweat. Given the choice if I'm using only one cab, I always use the Compact as I prefer the deeper tone. The Markbass amps are superb combined with the Compact. I bought my Littlemark II new in 2006 ish and never looked back but I'm sure there are equally good micro amps out there. Good luck in your search. (Whereabouts in Ireland are you? I'm in Belfast but travel south often enough) Frank. [/quote] I'm in galway, a nice place in the west. I haven't much of a profile 'on the street' as thus far I've been playing with a drummer or a drum machine. If you are down my way I can check out gigs and rigs and what have you so hit me up with a PM or summit! Yeah I saw this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLrIsd2K8Hg and figured if it can sound that good off axis through a so so camera mic.... Oh yeah it's worth a try. [quote name='stinson' timestamp='1340910573' post='1711487'] Agreed, the Compact/LMII combination is really good. [/quote] Yup. LMII/III/tube or variants are going to work with a good cab. If I could get a LM head and A/B it with a GK fusion... through a Compact I'd probably want both a whole lot!

[quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1340917174' post='1711622'] I just ordered a Compact, as the GK212mbe I had ordered from Thomann was going to be another 4 weeks, and I wasn't convinced it was going to give me the quality I was after (weight was really good though). Can't wait for it to turn up! I'm in St Austell, but it won't be here for 6-8 weeks! [/quote] Join the club.. . I was looking at the GK 212 neo-II 23 kg. The compact will thank my spine each time it's relocated. The cab, not the spine.

[quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1340898648' post='1711269'] It could be argued that there's already a product market catering to their needs complete with far more comprehensive available specs, under the label 'sound reinforcement'. Also bear in mind that getting a sufficient understanding of the specs that contribute to good subjective sound quality requires considerable effort on the part of the end user, which is partly why there are professional sound engineers/technicians to run rigs rather than musicians. Why bother going to the (considerable) expense involved in proper testing when a majority of bassists will probably misinterpret the specs anyway? A worst case is that manufacturers start focusing on a particular, easy to interpret spec like frequency response combined with max SPL that actually tells you rather little about the subjective capabilities of the cabs. People start focusing on the spec, manufacturers focus on getting that spec to look good at the cost of another aspect of the cab and the products end up worse not better! [/quote] Valid, very valid. I'd say the manufacturers can't help but maintain certain 'tone' requirements in their designs. It would seem unlikely that a cab maker would ever use numbers alone to sell. Heavy cabs still sell for as much as near equivalent lighter ones... not always but the weight info helps sell the product in some cases. Maybe better, more trustworthy info about performance would help sell the same cabs too... I do agree the negatives of that approach currently out weigh the strengths for the maker, but we'll see how things change in time. The 'sound reinforcement' you mentioned is no doubt the extension of traditional PA, Studio, and new technologies in processing live audio... cool stuff, but there is a need for, as you said, highly knowledgeable technical skills to use these tricks well. I agree most bassists will have an incomplete understanding of the specs... like me they don't feel the need to go into it in a lot of detail. But a graph would give a lot of users the ability to judge a good, balanced cab from a very trebly one. If most manufacturers gave the full story, then people would suspect the ones that didn't of having something to hide... maybe. Ideally it wouldn't be the manufacturer, it'd be an independent tester.... but then where do they get their 'cut'? I'm not convinced there is a win win solution.

[quote name='Ant' timestamp='1340893548' post='1711157'] i mount my preamp and i love it, makes setup loads quicker and everything looks cooler. dunno if i would put a whole amp on, i was only interested in having all of my tone making equipment in one place [/quote] I'd imagine cooling could be a concern... IF you were to block a side vent Also spillages would be a greater risk, vs. the 12V DC power on a typical pedal board... AFAIK. I'd say it's very doable, if you don't need the rack - type system!

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1340897467' post='1711248'] The good thing about Thomann is that you can send it back if you don't like it. But your analysis is probably correct. [/quote] Yup. I forgot to mention my combo is MDF, prone to weak lows at moderate volume*, and Has OK tone. Not awful, and I'd expect the 410 to be the same, awsome for the money, but there's a reason they're half the price of most entry level 410's! *The lows have to be heavily cut to avoid farting out. A budget 112 110W combo will do that.....

[quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1340896708' post='1711223'] So something like this then, [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_bb410t.htm"]http://www.thomann.d...nton_bb410t.htm[/url],(I'm not thinking of buying it!) even tho it seems quite impressive, decent frequency response, 500w, does it mean it will be prob be hiding something? For instance it just saying 102db for Spl won't mean anything and it could perform badly at different points. I mean the price is obviously a giveaway, but that will be more than just build quality, right? [/quote] Firstly I have a Harley Benton Combo, and It's OK, but definitely built with budget components. 102dB SPL might be an accurate value... but at what frequency? The 40 - 17k Hz Range too could be very useful info if they included the roll-off 'metric', in other words is it -10dB at 40Hz.... or -3dB. Big difference. without a curve or clearly defined data points you may as well give a verbal description with no actual values. IMO. Also the 500W value must be taken with a pinch of salt. That's more than likely 2 - 4 times over the typical acceptable distortion power values... in practice. I'm kinda paraphrasing this: [url="http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/interpreting-tech-specs.htm"]http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/interpreting-tech-specs.htm[/url] I'm not very experienced, but am a 'believer' in the knowledge of acoustic engineers. If you've heard a full scale, perfectly clear, wonderfully loud P.A. you'll know why these ladies & gents are far closer to understanding than a marketing person. No offence

[quote name='PlungerModerno' timestamp='1340890776' post='1711116'] .............Any bass or guitar cab / amp manufacturer worth their salt knows many bands, and individuals use effects and mixes that rely on pretty much studio monitor flatness for best results. Much more commonly they will change needs over time.... and rather than 6 different rigs over time, 1 fully capable rig would be a better idea, especially because it can be used again and refurbished.... Something tells me the best cabs of today will be rocking for a long time!.......... [/quote] This is kinda obviously from the perspective of the user, not the seller. Most manufacturers want to sell their customers multiple units, over and over again!!!!!

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1340885816' post='1710998'] You'd think, but what would you compare it against? The major problem is that the response of most bass cabs drops off around 80Hz. That's normal. The expectation of users is that they should be flat to 40Hz or lower. No manufacturer wants their response charts to reveal that their cabs don't meet that expectation, so they don't make charts available. Most manufacturers also quote sensitivity measured in the vicinity of 1kHz, where it doesn't matter, instead of 100Hz, where it does. SPL charts would reveal the truth, a truth that they don't want revealed. What is the truth? Have a look: [url="http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2357"]http://billfitzmauri...php?f=12&t=2357[/url] [url="http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2362"]http://billfitzmauri...php?f=12&t=2362[/url] [url="http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2374"]http://billfitzmauri...php?f=12&t=2374[/url] [/quote] Too true. You'd need at least two manufacturers giving the info for a comparison. Except for comparisons within a range... like two cabs from the same manufacturer.... For bass & guitar cabs the manufacturer 'tone not technical' approach might be right for some customers, however the fact that not all PA & monitor cab makers give crucial data for users to compare is shameful. Any bass or guitar cab / amp manufacturer worth their salt knows many bands, and individuals use effects and mixes that rely on pretty much studio monitor flatness for best results. Much more commonly they will change needs over time.... and rather than 6 different rigs over time, 1 fully capable rig would be a better idea, especially because it can be used again and refurbished.... Something tells me the best cabs of today will be rocking for a long time! I think it's complacency and marketing fallout that prevents a lot of manufacturers giving the true full capacities of their products. They also reserve the right to 'uprgrade' and 'retrofit' their products... so if they were to give response curves they would likely quote a large inaccuracy and overstate the performance, stating this was representative of the whole, but as an average your cab mightn't quite reach that performance level. This is distinct from fEARful, and your(BFM) cab design inaccuracies in performance as DIY cabs have loads of variables that make most of them unique. It's cool there are lots of choices today, but It's painful to see only a tiny fraction give decent info. As people who invest sometimes mountains in sound gear... we should choose based on the information we have, not what we assume due to lack of information. Reliability of information is another issue. It's painful to read the TB threads about a certain micro head that uses compression T'Cheat higher wattage... P.S. good chart data. I'm willing to bet the Barefaced compact I have on order has a curve along the lines of [b]the Eminence Omega Pro 15 w/tweeter, loaded in a 4 cu ft (net) cabinet, tuned to 40 Hz.[/b] @ [url="http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2374"]http://billfitzmauri...php?f=12&t=2374[/url] minus the high end extension.... [url="http://barefacedbass.com/uploads/barefaced-cab-specs-jan2011.jpg"]http://barefacedbass.com/uploads/barefaced-cab-specs-jan2011.jpg[/url] kinda gives me near chart like info. [url="http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/interpreting-tech-specs.htm"]http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/interpreting-tech-specs.htm[/url] seems fairly on the money. I'm not trying to start a nit picking battle. Barefaced isn't perfect, but it does give the info needed to compare cabs... to a large extent. If I were an audio pro I might need more, but I know the emphasis on flat response and honest numbers that some manufacturers are making is a change for the better.

It changes, but a representative sample of ten bassists I admire a lot .... Donald 'Duck' Dunn John Paul Jones Justin Chancellor Geezer Butler Phil Lynott James Jamerson Bob Babbit Carol Kaye Gerry McAvoy Paul McCartney Honourable mention to all the excellent session players that have influenced me without me really taking notes, or their names. You guys have the groove!

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1340826600' post='1710256'] First you have to find them; AFAIK no one reveals them. The official reasons why are 'we don't want to confuse players with information they might not understand (calling you stupid they are) and 'people buy our cabs based on how they sound, not how they chart'. But they don't explain how people are supposed to know how they sound before they buy them if they can't try them first. The real reason for there being no charts is either they don't want you to see them, or they don't have any. Or both. [/quote] Seems legit. If I was marketing a new cab, esp. a sealed cab... and wanted to show it could produce lots more lows at less watts than most sealed cabs... I'd give a chart because that'd be the hardest thing to argue against. I think it's because they want to be able to call all of their products great, but not provide precise ways of comparing them to both other options within and without the company. Not dishonest but showing a weakness as far as disclosure. Assuming they have the data if they don't they must be copying someone who does, or going through a looot of trial and error!

This place is cool. Admittedly there was a good reason for trust between the sharing people... but being good to each other is nearly always a very good thing.

I think a two 'angled' approach is best. I'm learning how to read sheet ATM, Ed Friedlands Books on the Hal leonard method have me learning rhythm and bass clef simultaneously, which while OK, I find my previous practice system invaluable. Initially I found triplet / 8th changes between and within measures hard to do, so I started practicing just that type of change based on the advice of my bro (A drummer). I practiced 1/4 - 1/8 - 1/8T - 1/16 - 1/8T - 1/8 - 1/4 and other combinations... ideally all kinds of mixed up permutations. even just practicing 1/8 - 1/8 triplet changes is beneficial. I find I can read rhythm much better because I practice it separately. There is no such thing as being too tight. Practicing with a drum machine is good too, and with a live drummer allows 'locking in' to become more natural. Start slow. I can understand and learn something (for now it's all pretty basic) much faster at 70 bpm, then raise the tempo, than if I started at 120 bpm and had to correct umpteen mistakes as I go along. Good luck

[quote name='alstocko' timestamp='1340875744' post='1710740'] They're great amps. I was sceptical at first about how quickly they'd popped up, but when Scott Devine recommended the LM2 to me I had to try. I got the tube for the extra versatility... [/quote] Indeed. He's not a gearhead, but has high standards. As good a reviewer as almost any... And a mega tutor. Really good vids, and cool materials. EDIT... I just got his stuff, This is going to take a while!!!

Hmmm. I bought a planet waves instrument cable.... Read it after I bought it, has 'oxygen free copper' . . . I'm not pissed. It was what they had in stock, and it wasn't insanely dear (10' for about 12 Euro) and does have good connectors. I look at others reviews, and the featureset, as well as warranty details. Returns options are also cool (Barefaced Bass!).

[quote name='alstocko' timestamp='1340837848' post='1710480'] I have the tube 500. So loud, great tone! Admittedly I don't use the tube part enough, but when I do... Indestructible too! [/quote] That does not be surprisin' yarrrr Markbass may be younger than GK, ampeg and many others, but they have demanded a lot of attention. There's a reason they can sell 112 combo's at a grand a pop (EURO). And that is marketing!!! nah it's not just hype. They are very light.

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1340833729' post='1710410'] I recently got my compact which I'm pairing with Ashdowns latest micro amp the MiBass. The MiBass has a very warm sound and was great through my Ashdown 1x15 neo cab but even better with the compact. I've never had a punchier sound and both my Jazzes sound fantastic through this combination. The MiBass has a very cunning semi parametric EQ. You pick the frequency with the knob and cut or boost that frequency with the slider. It's very simple and instinctive and makes getting the tone you want very easy. It uses the same power amp as all the other micro amps (Bang and Olufsen I believe). If you get the chance to try the MiBass it at your local music shop I really recommend it. Here's a thread on basschat all about it [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/129721-ashdown-mibass/page__st__200__p__1679480__hl__mibass__fromsearch__1#entry1679480"]http://basschat.co.u..._1#entry1679480[/url] [/quote] Aye... I had heard of these amps.... a nice tone seems possible... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKEXNhpmbGQ&feature=channel&list=UL Pity I can't play that well.... yet! Yeah the ashdown gear seems to punch above it's price point. I like the tone but want to avoid a 'baked in' tone.... I've heard that GK and ashdown have to be tweaked to get a resonably flat amplification... but some have said (I haven't checked myself) that the ashdown heads are more difficult to get a clean tone out of. I'd need to A/B a few to know, and play with them to get a good idea. I suspect they could cover my needs amply though. I appreciate these suggestions. I know as long as I have a reliable amp, that I figure out and adapt my effects and tone (technique too) to the needs at that time, I'll be good. Or at least as good as I actually am. It always impresses me how much better I sound the more I practice... . I'll figure this out eventually!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[quote name='machinehead' timestamp='1340752208' post='1709291'] I'm in Ireland (Belfast) and I've had my Compact since 2009 and my Midget since 2010. They are just really good practical gigging cabs. You won't be disappointed. Frank. [/quote] I'll be the judge of that!!!! Just kidding... I was lured in by the weight and low end. I was looking at light 212's and 410's.... all over 20kg and most close or over 30. I have heard samples and expect the cab to do everything I need and more. As you have done, should I need lots of treble in the future I can combine it with a miget T or add a crossover and use a guitar cab or something.... I'd consider that if I thought it was practical. If I had the dough... I'd probably spring for the big twin . Right now that'd be complete overkill. [quote name='0175westwood29' timestamp='1340776500' post='1709349'] Thing is ideally i need to trade my 610 for the barefaced as i can't get the other money together at the min! Im in no manic rush to get rid of the 610, its an awesome cab and alex will still be around. Just wanna get the right deal for my cab so can finance the new cab, and i just couldnt take the risk of ordering then selling my cab as ive had a few deals no happen on this cab already. Andy [/quote] Aye, I think that's what I thought you were looking at.... Em.... I guess it's a position many people are in at the minute. Money is tight. I'm only able to get what I'm planning because I've been seriously planning to get it. Not smoking or drinking (often) definately helps. Hopefully you'll get a decent price for the 610, and your barefaced rig will blow your audiences across the room with joyus bass power

[quote name='alstocko' timestamp='1340813240' post='1709995'] Markbass, Markbass, MARKBASS!!! [/quote] Is someone advocating the use and appreciation of the very popular brand of bass amplification known as MarkBass????????? I've heard them. I've heard of them. Initially I figured they were outside my budget. A few months later, I'm totally open to them. I've got a slightly bigger budget, I know they work VERY well and are reliable, and they do the 'super light' bass head thang pretty good too. I need to investigate further. While I wait for my cab I'll be considering the cost/benefit breakdown of a selection of micro heads. The Markbass tube 500/800's seem warm... And despite the garish looks are very.... well loud is the right word. I don't know just yet. I'll make my mind up when I have to.