thebrig

5 hours ago, Fugazibass said:

Dm'd you.

Replied.

All the Mexican bodies come like that, I bought two last year and they were the same.

This is from the Fender website.

I really do appreciate all the advice guys, so thanks everyone.

As stated earlier, we are all "old gits" so we want to keep everything as simple as possible, and although it's me asking the questions on behalf of our band, I certainly won't be taking charge of the PA, I've always been a plug and play man, and that's the way it's staying, I've always left the PA to the singer to setup. 😉

My last gigging band consisted of vocals, guitar, drums, and bass, we had an old powered mixer and two beaten up passive speakers, only vocals went through the PA, and despite our setup, experienced musicians watching us often said to us that our sound was amazing, every instrument could be heard, and we sounded really tight, no bottom end boom, etc.

So what we are thinking now is to maybe get a couple of Mackie Thump212 12" Active PA Speakers, with Stands, Stand Bag & Cables for £772.00

This will obviously eat up all our budget, and then add a bit more for a mixer.

Do you think these would be a good choice, and if so, recommendations for a half decent mixer would be appreciated?

https://www.musicmatter.co.uk/mackie-thump212-pair-with-stands-stand-bag-cables?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAlJKuBhAdEiwAnZb7lTiQ7M79HSIjaqMoylxTVUV5J02P5dxaCXvWw4t5bBlUpZX-595tsxoC5WkQAvD_BwE

4 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

There will be times when you won't want to bother, but I'd approach it with the attitude that it's better to have the capability and not need it than to need the capability and not have it. That mainly falls on the mixer.

Thanks, that's sounds like great advice.

11 minutes ago, Phil Starr said:

And I note two guitars, bass, drums and vocals. I'm assuming you have back line and some bits and pieces like mic's and stands. I'm not going to try to tell you how to do it, that's probably another question and another thread. You'll need to make some decisions before you buy though. So as a minimum you'll need a couple of speakers, mixer and amps, stands to hold up the speakers and all the associated leads. Just like bass you can buy separate speakers and amps or a combo with both built in. In PA you can buy active speakers (the combo version) or separates passive PA speakers and amps. You can even buy a mixer with the amps built in. Almost everyone buying now will be buying active speakers with a passive PA mixer. You'll also need to think about monitoring.

 

You ask what sort of power you'll need, that's a bit of a minefield not least because the manufacturers are in an arms race of exaggeration (lying?) about the power they rate their gear at, so much so that you should probably ignore any power figures. I'd say just go for a couple of the best active 12" speakers you can afford, most 12" speakers can only handle aroudn 300W before overloading so If you go for any of the decent brands they are actually only going to be running up to that sort of level before they start to distort and most will be plenty for the average UK pub. You can go for 10" or !5" units but 10's will probably struggle for most bands and 15's are just unnecessary weight (I have 15's, trust me here, I used to run 12's!) A pair of used but good 12" active PA speakers are going to cost you £300-450 for a pair and if you are lucky you'll get the stands thrown in. The good news is that there isn't a lot of rubbish out there and even some of the cheaper brands can sound OK.

 

Before you choose your speakers however have a think about your mixer. You can fill a room from your backline and go for vocals only through PA and if you are goodat PA even get a reasonable sound but it's tough to do and the on'stage sound levels are going to be damaging to your hearing. What the audience will hear will be poorer too as the vocal mic's witll be picking up all that noise and distorting the audiences sound. Even if you don't do it from day one you'll eventually want to put more through the PA and turn down the on-stage levels. That means you'll need channels for everything so you need to buy a mixer that will grow with you. Inputs for all the instruments and mics and probably at least three channels for drums. What I'm leading up to is that if you can possibly afford it buy a digital mixer, they offer everything you need into a compact package and for the same facilities they work out much cheaper. The reality is that they will offer so much more, More than enough channels for any pub band, comprehensive tone controls on every input, flexible effects on every channel, graphic equaliser on the output to compensate for room acoustics and deal with feedback and a lot of automation to help you set up quickly, at a minimum you can save the settings that work and use them again at every gig. All I do at most gigs now is recall my settings and adjust the master volume. You'll also have an output so each band member can have their own monitoring if they want it. Most of them will record the gig for you and let you mix it down later. You'll also be able to mix from anywhere in the room. If you are starting from scratch they are probably simpler to learn than an ana logue desk.

 

8 minutes ago, Beedster said:

Setting up an all-band PA for small gigs is a PITA, means more time and more work, and IME can piss off a few band members who are more used to plug and play. But it's worth it for the both consistency of sound and the control it gives you over overall volume. The test for me has always been punter's phone or similar crude recordings of gigs; in the old pre-PA days a phone recording would often give the impression that only one or two instruments were playing, at least it would never pick up a decent whole band sound. With all of us in the PA every recording sounds like a band (and the levels of certain players stay as they were in sound check) 👍

Thanks for your advice guys, I'm beginning to think that we need to have a re-think? 🫢 maybe we should consider putting the whole band through the PA, so I will put it to them.

I guess that once we've done it a few times then we will get used to it, especially if we all so our bit to make it easier. 

We are a covers band playing mostly 60's and 70's classic rock, nothing too heavy.

Both our guitarists play small valve amps and know how to use them properly, they are on stands pointing upwards, they don't play loud, they play with a lot of feeling, our drummer has a soft touch, and me? I'm often told to turn up.

I use a wireless system and regularly go out front to keep a check on the levels, and I always make a point of asking the pub/venue manager to tell me if we are too loud, because as a band, we do appreciate that bar staff need to be able to hear what the customers are ordering at the bar, and the punters like to be able to hear each other talking without having to shout loudly at each other, and we find that this attitude is appreciated by the venues and we usually get repeat bookings.

Because we feel that our years of experience has resulted in knowing our equipment well, and how to get the best out of it without blasting the punter's ear drums, we think that we only need to put the vocals and kick through the PA to achieve a good sound.

Despite our years of playing between us, none of us are very knowledgeable regarding PA systems, which is why we are after some advice on the type of PA that would suit our needs, and hopefully light enough that five ageing muso's can carry in and out, and set up without too much hassle.😉

This is the gear:
Guitarist 1: Roland Blues Cube 30w  Tube Amp
Guitarist 2: Yerasov GTA-15 15w Tube Amp
Bass: Fender Rumble 800 Combo

Drums: Various kits, but he is a soft hitting drummer

3 hours ago, PaulWarning said:

in an ideal world everything would got through the PA to a mixing desk, and in a bigger venue that's the case, but small pub gigs aren't the ideal world, you can be in a small space in a pub with punters already there having a drink, spending a long time loading in and out, setting up and sound checking can be a pain in the neck for everybody.

We've used a PA (no subs) just for vocals and kick drum for nearly 20 years and we keep getting gigs so it can't be that bad

This is what we want to do, we are all experienced musicians in out 60's and 70's and have no intention of playing larger venues anymore, we just want to enjoy playing music to a decent standard in local pubs, and to be honest, the thought of loading loads of heavy PA gear in and out of pubs and spending a lot of time putting everything through the PA just doesn't appeal to us.

Our drummer plays a small acoustic drum kit, both guitarists play through small valve amps, so we think we can create a decent sound by just putting the vocals and kick through the PA, which is what we have all done in the past with our previous bands.

I think what I really need to know is what sort of PA system should we look for to play in pubs, but have enough power to cover the occasional larger venue.

Thanks for all the advice so far guys, I'm taking it all onboard.👍

Here's me playing my Burns Sonic bass in 1967 (please ignore my flower power kipper tie), I was still at school when I bought it so I borrowed £15 from my elder sister who was working, I later swapped it for some fishing tackle because I never thought that I would be good enough to play in a band, I still regret it to this day.🙁

38 minutes ago, BassBunny said:

What's the budget? 

Probably up to £750 second-hand.

21 minutes ago, mep said:

What's your line up. Is it for just vocals or putting all the instruments through if needed. You'll need monitors too.

Yes I should have been more specific and I will amend the post, 👍 it's Vocals, Drums, Guitars x 2, Bass with probably just all the vocals and maybe kick.

We are a new band that hopes to be gigging sometime soon, our singer has a great voice but hasn't gigged for over 20 years, so he has no PA at the moment.

We will be playing pubs mainly, and the odd small club occasionally, with probably just the vocals and kick going through it.

None of us have that much knowledge of PA systems, so our question is:

How much power do we need, and roughly how much do we need to spend? We will probably go down the second-hand route.

I've transferred my current project to a folder on my desktop and it seems to be working fine now.

9 minutes ago, paul_5 said:

Yes. Absolutely. Do you have a second internal SS drive to store them on? That would be the ideal solution.

No, but as I usually only work on one project at a time, would it be better if I was to create a folder on my desktop and work from that, and then when completed, move anything I want to save to an external drive?

Just a thought, could it be running slow because all my Reaper projects and files are saved to an external USB drive?

I’ve used Reaper on my 2015 MacBook Pro for a number of years without any problems until recently, and because other programs seemed to be running slower as well, I decided to do a factory reset.

I’ve re-installed Reaper but it still seems to be struggling, has anyone got any ideas as to why, is it Reaper, or could it be my MacBook even though I’ve restored it to its original condition?

Thanks in advance.

10 hours ago, MartinB said:

As president of the DB-PRE fan club, allow me to wish you GLWTS 😁

Thank you Mr President.😉

Laney DB-PRE Digbeth Bass Preamp Pedal

£100 Posted.

It's in great condition and works perfectly.

I purchased this a few week's ago from a fellow Basschatter, and the reason I'm selling is not because it doesn't sound great, because it does, but I've now decided that pedals are just not for me, I prefer to just plug in and play.

Korg Toneworks AX3G Modelling Effects Pedal

£25 Posted.

Works with 4 x AA batteries, or 9v Mains Power Adaptor (Not Included).

The Korg AX3G ToneWorks is a battery powered, foot-switching stompbox containing 57 of Korg's REMS modelling technology effects, the same as found on the top-of-the-line ToneWorks AX3000G and AX3000B, a tour truck's worth of 16 modern and classic amps, 10 cabs from 4x12s to combos, processors and effects from wahs, reverbs, delays to pick-up emulations. 

The AX3G contains 40 preset and 40 user editable programs with 4 effects types: pre-effect, drive/amp, modulation, and delay/reverb. Six effects can be used simultaneously, including noise reduction. Each program contains a chain of editable effects blocks chosen from the 57 effects. 

Select the output to optimize for a line level output, open-backed combo, or closed-back cabinets. Use up to six REMS modelling effects simultaneously, and save your settings as one of 40 different programs. 

Connect an optional EXP2 foot controller or XVP expression/volume pedal and use the Korg AX3G as a volume or wah pedal. Small enough to fit in a gig bag and battery or optional AC adapter powered.

AX3G Features:

57 types of REMS modelling effect variations are built in, and you can simultaneously use up to six different effects including noise reduction. 

16 drive/amp types recreate the sound of a variety of various amps, as well as ten different cabinet types. 

Numerous effects at a level of quality that rivals studio products. 

Full editing of all parameters for four effect categories: pre-effect, drive/amp, modulation, delay/reverb. 

40 user programs for creating and saving your own sounds. 

40 preset programs are also provided, giving you a total of 80 programs for immediate selection. 

Built-in Auto Chromatic Tuner from 27.5 Hz to 1,318 kHz.

Two-way power lets you use batteries or optional AC adaptor. 

Connect an optional EXP-2 foot controller or XVP-10 expression/volume pedal and use it as a volume or wah pedal.

1/4" Input and Output.

24-bit A/D and D/A conversion.

31.25kHz sampling frequency.

ZOOM B2 Bass Effects Pedal

Withdrawn

In good condition and works perfectly, but the original knobs have been replaced and one of the 'red' caps is missing, none of this affects how it functions.

If you can't live with these knobs, then a new set are readily available on eBay and other sources quite cheaply.

Works with 4 x AA Batteries, or 9v Mains Power Adaptor (Not Included).

The Zoom B2 bass guitar effects pedal uses Zoom's new ZFX-3 processor with 32-Bit internal processing, 96kHz sampling rate, 24-Bit A/D, D/A converters, pro audio specification in a stompbox. Optimized for bass guitar, the Zoom B2 comes with seven effects modules with 45 effects types, an ultra-wide frequency response of 20Hz-40kHz, a built-in drum machine with 40 rhythm patterns, and an integrated chromatic tuner.

ZOOM B2 FEATURES:
40 preset effects patches.
40 programmable memory patches.
7 effect modules with 45 effect types.
32-bit processing, 96kHz sampling rate.
24-bit A/D, D/A converters.
Ultra wide frequency response:20Hz - 40kHz.
Built-in drum machine with 40 rhythm patterns.
Integrated chromatic tuner.
Sturdy metal chassis with rubber side-guard shells.

9 hours ago, SamIAm said:

The Jam in question is a monthly gathering of ukulele players (It can sound like a swarm of bees at times!) so not as regimented.

Anyone can turn up with their uke (Be it soprano/concert/tenor) and join in ... as there are not many ukulele bass players, I asked 'just to be polite' and was rather shocked at the response!

In the end tho, it led to me finding a very very happy place to groove!

Sam x

Oh, I didn't realise that it was a jam for ukulele players.

15 hours ago, SamIAm said:

A few weeks ago I posted a 'I play bass, can I come along' ... the response was 'We already have a bass player' 😕 Hmmm ... where in the rules does it suggest that only one bass player is the max!?

I still can't get my head around this.🤔

Does this mean that no bass players can go along and replace the "house band" bassist to play a couple of songs?

Does this apply to guitarists, drummers, etc.. as well?

22 minutes ago, Bassfinger said:

Our drummist uses an electronic kit and it sounds great, you really wouldn't know any different.

 

A lot of venues with sound level limits insist on an electronic kit anyway these days.

Yes, I agree that they would certainly have advantages in small or quiet venues.

19 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

I'd say get your prospective drummer in for an audition and decide when you've heard and seen them.

 

We are definitely going to get him in for an audition, we are not going to dismiss him because he plays an electronic kit.

In the past, we've had drummers come along and talked for hours about their "top of the range gear" but were totally imcompetant drummers.

My band is currently looking for a drummer and we've had four applicants so far, they all seem quite suitable and one in particular is really into the music we play, and is able to rehearse during the day because we are all retired or semi-retired.

But, he says he plays an electronic kit, I know the higher-end kits can sound quite good, but on the odd occasions I've seen bands play live with an electronic kit, something just seems to be lacking sound wise, and they just don't look right.

Is it just me?

I would be interested to hear of your experiences of drummers using electronic kits.