EddieG

Hey folks. Just to keep everyone in the loop, Jon Letts emailed this morning and agreed to accept and adhere to a proposal for a bass. Not a demand for a Stradivarius or anything over what I'm owed, but not a cheap option to get him off the hook either. Now, I know that a lot of folk will be hanging their heads and saying "he's f**kin' mad" , and the Stockholm Syndrome comment did make me laugh!🤣 All I can say out in the open just now is even though it may not look like it, there's a definite method to this madness, having weighed all the factors both past and present and knowing exactly how this could have ended up. And when this finally has ended, I will break things down in detail on these boards. I've no doubt most of you will agree with this action once it is all done and dusted. Just stick with me and trust me here, guys. No matter what happens, it's going to be worth it.😉 And thanks to you all for the support, between here and TB, it really has lifted my state of mind very much. It's easy to get caught in a loop of expecting the bad and being surprised at the good.

Binky, you could well be right on that, I know you've certainly got enough solid experience to base your reply on.👍 As per his request I've emailed him this evening with a proposal for an instrument that would bring matters to a close. The proposed costs come in under the outstanding amount and isn't demanding an Alembic or Ritter level of luthiery, but it would fulfil the needs I have for an instrument now, and is in my opinion extremely reasonable. I can list a cost breakdown later if needs be and I'll retain the email just in case, but the ball is now in his court, and it's down to whether he wants to follow exactly the specs I require, or doesn't.

Just to quickly update, Jon Letts asked me to contact him via email with a view to resolving the issue, which I've done. I'll keep everyone updated as to how this develops, and if it is resolved. I just hope that Jon learns something from this unfortunate experience, and moves forward.

Just to answer a couple of points I've seen. When I first ordered from Letts, he was virtually just beginning to operate as a business. But I did my homework (sure you did, Ed!!🤣🤣) on his skills as a luthier, and then spent some time discussing with him exactly what I wanted him to build. He was doing completely bespoke orders at this point, he had no "model range" he was working from, as I'm sure OG Basschat users will remember, and after ascertaining that every single aspect of the build would be as requested by me (meaning he would work to every single detail I requested), I mocked up a quick rough of what I was looking for. It was based off the shape of my Burner, and modified into a singlecut (funnily enough, years before Smith himself did the same!). Below is the initial drawing I sent Letts, that he agreed to. As you can see from that and the body shape on the template board in the previous posts I made, he started out adhering exactly to what I wanted. It was after I'd paid him the money that I would get the pretentious nonsense like "oh, I can't do this, I have my own designs that I work from" etc. Then later, it would become "I'm the builder, you should just be quiet and let me build it". Completely uprooting the goalposts to a totally different field altogether! When the "Basschat deal" thing happened is when things started to unravel, because then he started taking on job after job after job. And then because he was getting more orders, he clearly started feeling that he should assert his design suggestions over mine, which was absolutely not what we agreed on. We agreed that every single aspect of my bass, no matter how small, would be selected and agreed by me. After that, I think regular board users will know the story. As for the quality of his work, Jon's problem was as I said above, and as seems to be pretty common among small luthiers; a total reticence to listen to the customer, and instead foist upon them what THEY want to build, as opposed to what the customer asks for. I'm not talking about luthiers who establish a model range like ACG, nor am I talking about those who talking from experience try to point out things that in their opinion would make a bass better, but which may take it away from the customer's original design to whatever level. I'm talking about those luthiers who, for no reason other than ego, say "that design you wanted is crap, mine is much better, so I'm building mine instead", or dismisses other designs and ideas out of sheer ego and pigheadedness. Case in point, a luthier from my area (whose work was very well thought of online and in print) totally dismissed singlecut basses to me as utter nonsense, pointing out that his Carl Thomson-inspired designs were much better and much more marketable. A year later? He's advertising singlecuts because he hasn't sold a single bass! The guy I'm talking about here, despite being an absolutely incredible builder, and whose basses I had the opportunity to personally play and can attest to the quality of, went out of business. In my own limited experience Jon Letts's build quality is actually very good. As part of "working off" the debt, he agreed to build me a neck for one of my "4 converted to 5" basses I've built using 4-string bodies and a tight string spacing. It's essentially a Fender 4-string neck, with a 45mm nut and a tiltback headstock. It has Jescar EvoGold frets, and has never once needed a truss rod adjustment. On that occasion he built exactly what I asked for, and it is solid, and completely perfect. It is the neck on my number one bass right now and I would seriously struggle if something were to happen to it. So Jon certainly has the skills and capability to build top notch instruments. The problem is that he can't get out of his own way long enough to do it. Such a shame.

Totally agree with you.👍🏻 If this occurred over the space of six months and I turned up to badmouth him to all and sundry without giving him a chance to sort things, then I'd fully expect people asking me to give him a chance at rectifying it. I feel I was way beyond what other people would have probably considered generously reasonable, and he took my good nature and stomped on it. Every single time he asked for a concession, I gave it. And he ultimately threw that back in my face every time. And even now, the opportunity is there to ask "how can I make this right?", and he hasn't bothered. Instead, he immediately reverted to the type I described him as.

So in the interest of full disclosure and to make sure the full story is being told, I posted the details of my story on the Talkbass boards as a "warning" thread. After some time, Letts actually replied, and his response is below. Given what I've said, make of it what you will. Letts- "Hi all. So yes. I did have many problems at the time of this build. And have been struggling financially pretty much ever since. Eddie wasn’t the only person who got stung by my unfortunate circumstances at the time. But it was limited to just a few individuals. I have tried to remedy this situation with Eddie over the years. And fully endeavour to remedy the situation as soon as possible. I did try to offer Eddie a bass a couple of years ago and he refused to let me do that and insisted Ai build a bass that he had personally designed and that just couldn’t happen at that time. In my experience these things always end pretty badly. Never the less I do owe him a bass, like I say along with a couple of others from this period when I actually made an attempt in my own life. I do still sell guitars through reverb.com but make very little. Hardly enough to survive to be honest. But I’m quite stubborn in my belief in myself as a guitar maker regardless of my business failures. I am a preferred seller on reverb and have a 5 star feedback with done pretty incredible testimonials. I had to cut contact with Eddie because it just became very heated between us. Yes, I owe him some money. Yes I am trying to overcome this situation. No, Eddie doesn’t help by spamming very post about me and my guitars on every social platform. I don’t blame Eddie for this. I fully understand his anger at what went down with his bass that did cost a small fortune to get to the point it was when everything fell apart in my life. I didn’t steal his money exactly. The money was spent on timber and unfortunately the bass just didn’t make it at the time and I’ve not been able to reconcile this matter like I really do need to. I am working on it. I still take the odd custom order on a no deposit, no commitment basis very rarely. I do need to sell guitars. They all get sold through reverb with full buyer protection. And have for several years now. There’s not a lot I can say. I’ve said things I probably shouldn’t in the heat of the moment in the past and sun very dubious about even commenting on this stuff for fear of coming across the wrong way. I’m not really that bad of a guy, I hope. All this business with Eddie, Tom and a Michael are isolated incidents from a long time ago. I really hope my business can pick up so I can focus on fixing past mistakes. I really shouldn’t do this. But then again maybe I should. I don’t know. There are quite a few guitar makers that have run into trouble financially and mentally and I’m glad that I can say that I came out of the other side with my life intact and willing to carry on doing what I feel so was born to do. Which is not to steal money but make the best guitars I can. I will never give up and I hope this will one day be behind us both. Maybe you have had problems yourself and can maybe understand a little of what I have experienced. Again, IDK. I am trying. Thanks. Jon." So as you can see, and as I described previously, all the excuses in the world why he hasn't tried to right the situation over the space of the years I've been having to deal with him, while stopping short of actually DOING SO or even trying to ascertain what it would take to finally resolve matters.

Burns-bass, with respect does this look like someone who feels his business is "in tatters"? https://youtube.com/@JonLettsGuitars I can assure you Letts fully intends to carry on as he always has done. And the only way to combat this is to make sure my story and that of the others he stole from is spread far and wide. He deserves nothing less.

DO NOT feel sorry for Letts. I did, more than once when he laid out his sob stories (which I suspect were lies, like everything else he said). A luthier making an honest mistake, and trying his best to put that right? That's someone to feel sorry for. Letts took thousands of pounds from myself and at least three other people I have personally been in contact with, and ultimately refused to give them what they asked for. The fact that he's a substandard cowboy isn't mine or anyone else's fault. It's his. You can't make my bass because you're useless? Give back my money. It's as easy as that. I have the whole correspondence trail between Letts and myself, going back to him promising the bass would be the best I'd ever played, right up to the Instagram message of me trying to get something worked out for the balance he owed me, and Letts simply ceasing to communicate. This isn't a man who deserves your sympathy, or an opportunity for a "fresh start" or the means to "eat", as someone put it. This is someone who deserves to be ostracised as a guitar builder, so that no one has to go through this with him again. Because someone most certainly will, of that you can be absolutely sure.

I was awarded all of my money, plus costs against him. You'd think at this point that Letts would learn his lesson, pay back the money, and put an end to the situation, right? Wrong! Every month I would get excuse after excuse from him why he couldn't pay. It got to the point I had to send bailiffs to his address, to whom he claimed he had no money at all. At one point I made a deal for him to build me a neck and I would take the cost off the outstanding amount, which he actually did. I later suggested he build me a bass worth the outstanding amount of £1015, which he agreed to. But very soon the old Letts emerged again, the excuses started, and then during the pandemic he begged me to hold off payments as he claimed not to be earning....while unbeknown to me he was setting up his Reverb page on the side, and selling basses. Like an idiot, I agreed to it. In February 2021, my mother died of breast cancer. I told Jon about this when it happened; I really needed that money back as I had immediate costs connected with her funeral. I didn't get it. He didn't even try to pay. And that's where I currently stand. I'm now in the process of going through the court system yet again to pursue him. In the meantime, Letts is making videos on YouTube and trying to portray himself as an honest luthier, when the reality is that he still owes me a great deal of money, and I know of two other people he took for every penny they paid him. One gentleman who lives outside of the UK, paid the full amount as well which I think was more than me. Letts took him for the whole lot, because he knew this man had no legal recourse to get it back that was financially viable. The story of my dealings with Letts has much more detail than I posted here, but I've compressed it enough to give you an idea. I basically spent 4 years chasing Letts for a bass, and almost 6 years trying to get my money back. So when you're seeing that Jon Letts is advertising basses, and you think it might be worth dealing with him, let me give you some advice; DON'T. Thanks for reading.

And then, in December 2015, he did it again....he messed it up. I paid for Hipshot single string bridges. When building the bass, Letts hadn't allowed for the height of these bridges in regards to the fretboard, so when it came to fitting them, it was an absolute physical impossibility. He'd messed the build up yet again, and yet again the only way to repair it would be him getting more materials. The plan he offered was to lay a top right across the centre block, which I absolutely did not want. In fact, at this point and after all of the hassles that I'd gone through with him, I refused any concessions that would take me away from the bass I paid for. From this point on, Letts offered nothing more than excuse after excuse as to why he couldn't rectify the mistake and complete my order. I was adamant I wanted what I wanted, and while he offered only excuses I kept seeing him complete instruments and have them online, which I pulled him up about frequently. The excuses carried on and on over the course of 2016. Back and forward constantly, and I strongly suspected at this point that his position was that he wasn't going to finish it. Eventually, after being as forceful as possible and pushing him to complete, and warning him of the possible outcome heading his way, while all the time he continued to ignore communication, I was left with no other choice but to take court action, which was successful.

It's now 2015, and still no bass. Letts would now start using any and every diversionary tactic and excuse he possibly could to explain why the bass was now OVERDUE BY MORE THAN A YEAR, and still nowhere near to being finished. He started falling on various sob stories and the excuse of his home life getting in the way constantly (not my problem!), then I started seeing posts on social media about how he likely "soon won't have a workshop". Concerned again, I emailed him and got the usual nonsensical excuses, "I'm trying to finish it, things are difficult" etc. Just a complete pack of lies, really. But then in the first months of 2015 he sent me a couple of updates, and suddenly things started to look promising. What was a pile of wood now started to look like an actual bass! Obviously he had a bit of wind at his back here, because he kept in touch a bit more at this point, and after almost two years it finally looked like I might be getting my bass after all.

Letts sent me photos of the wood for the replacement bass, and at one point had it as the front page of his website. I thought that given things had been clarified, coupled with his assurances that he would bash on and fulfil my order (which was now WELL overdue), I would have a finished bass in my hands before the end of the year. I was wrong. Very wrong. Letts got even more sketchy, and over the course of 2014 it became harder and harder to get hold of him. I kept seeing more and more unrest online about him not answering customers back who'd paid for basses. The excuses started coming thick and fast from him; helping his mother move house, kids being off on holidays and even his son's supposed ongoing medical conditions (later, he even sunk as low as using his brother's DEATH from meningitis). 2014 edged into 2015, after Letts himself telling me he'd had an issue with a customer (should have been a red flag!), suddenly his website and Facebook page were gone. I emailed him and was assured that he was still working on the bass. He began changing logos constantly, changing names etc, and I began getting very concerned. So I started being more forceful, and told him I was insisting on a delivery date, which he accepted. But shortly after that, the real problems began...

Letts began disappearing more regularly, and I noticed more and more unhappy customers on here and elsewhere. 2013 dropped into 2014, and at the beginning of February Letts sent me a photo of where he was at so far, and it became obvious to me that something was very wrong with the bass. So I emailed him to point it out; I ordered a neck through, but the neck blank he sent me photos of was FAR too short for that! After a couple of days he emailed back, admitting that he'd gone ahead and built the neck for a glue-in build! And this was despite having looked at the order!! Letts tried to tell me there was a way he could "make it work", but I told him it was a deal breaker, and he agreed to start again. In the meantime, he completed the bass with the materials he originally had for mine, and sold it on with a glued in neck, which he had to in order to recoup the material costs again to correct the mistake with mine. You may have seen the demo video of this bass which used to be up on YouTube. At this point Letts started talking about how things would "cut into his profits ha ha", somehow trying to twist it that my insistence on him sticking to my order and him needing to pay to rectify his mistake was my fault!! Anyway, on the 22nd February, my father collapsed with a massive brain haemorrhage, and I spent his last hours with him at his bedside. In the midst of handling all that, I was still dealing with the Letts fiasco, which rumbled on, with Letts now gathering more materials at his own cost. But I decided to go up to a buckeye burl top on the bass, paid for it from Cook Woods, and had it delivered to Letts. The neck laminate layout was different as he insisted he couldn't get the same ones as previously, though it's fairly obvious that he didn't want to pay for them.

This is the first time I've noticed this thread about Letts, but I feel absolutely duty-bound to jump in with my story, which if the person reading has any kind of sense will see them avoid this thief. Because that's exactly what he is, and I'm talking from first-hand experience. This will be spread over a couple of replies, because it simply can't be told in one. I came across Jon Letts in June 2013 and like most on here, couldn't believe a guy was charging so little for custom work. With my 40th birthday impending the missus agreed to me ordering from him, and after some back and forth I agreed the details of a custom 33" scale neck-through 5-string, paid him the deposit, paid above the normal price for a decent top and my own choice of neck laminates, and he said he'd order the materials and get started. He talked a good game, and so after some more chat and his guarantee that paying in full up front would punt my order to the top of the pile, (like a moron) I transferred the balance in good faith. At first he would keep in touch regularly, let me know when the woods arrived etc, but it wasn't long before problems began... Letts disappeared, and it was hard to get hold of him. Now and again I'd see his website updated, at one point with the materials for my bass. I kept seeing him and his stooge Brent appearing here to answer questions and tout for more business, while I was waiting for word on mine. He gave me a deadline of 24 weeks on the invoice which, as it got closer I started to press him on when it would be done. Eventually, he started sending me photos, as the deadline came and went. But seeing some progress, I felt a bit more comfortable that he would deliver what I paid for. So I didn't press him too hard, and let him carry on.