Leaderboard

During the first half of a gig once I noticed my top strap button had worked loose in the last song. I finished the song by holding the neck up with my left to take the weight for fear of the strap button pulling out, and sending bass tumbling groundwards. In the break I tried to tighten it but the screw wouldn't tighten properly so I went to the bar and purchased a box of matches, pushed one into the screw hole and broke it off flush. The strap button screw now did up nice and tight, great stuff, now I can enjoy the second half worry free. How wrong was I? All the way through that second set I could hear that the wood composition had changed in that bass. Like an idiot I had not asked for tone matches. What a fool I felt.

I decided I wanted a good looking single cut bass. So many designs out there look like sperm wales, so here my design. Front and back has a bookmatched flamy/spalted maple cap with a lovely reddish tinge, Core is Alder. Neck will be flame maple/wenge laminate with an ebony fingerboard. ETS hardware and Hipshote Ultralite tuners. Preamp is a Noll 3-band 3-parametric EQ running 18v, Pickup is a Delano Xtender Dual coil.

The latest member to the family

If I charged £8k for a build, I'd feel obliged to give the new owner my car as well, which wouldn't please MrsAndyjr1515 a great deal....

The Terrortones had our SpiderQueen EP pressed through Media Hut and the SnakeOil For Snakes Album by Mobineko, and unless they have changed the cutting and pressing plants they use to rubbish ones since we had ours done I can recommend either. The reality of the record manufacturing process these days is that very few of the brokers advertising vinyl production actually do their own pressing and nearly all of it is sub-contracted out to pressing plants in Europe (Czech Republic and France in our cases). However given Brexit and the various customs delays and additional charges associated with it this may no longer be the situation. Certainly before the beginning of 2021 all the UK pressing plants were vastly more expensive than the places we used. That may not longer be the case. From an actual production PoV there are a couple of things to be aware of. There is a trade-off between audio quality and running time on vinyl and also the closer you get to the label on a record the lower the quality of the audio. IIRC the recommendations we got for our pressing were not to exceed 4 minutes per side for 7" and 12 minutes for 12" (both at 45rpm) if we wanted the best quality audio signal on our records. In practice one side of our 7" EP was 5' 30" and each side of the album was 18 minutes and the audio hasn't suffered significantly within the limitations of the medium. Don't bother with the extra expense of "heavy-weight" pressings, it's for vinyl snobs only. Besides compared with the typical records of the late 70s and 80s the current standard of 120 gram vinyl is already a massive improvement. The big problem you will have with producing vinyl as opposed to CDs is how long it takes. SpiderQueen took just over 4 weeks from submitting the audio and sleeve artwork to receiving our records, but by the time we did the album that had increased to 12 weeks turn-around. There are places offering quicker lead times , but all charge a premium. Also if your are looking at getting your record produced anytime during the run up to "Record Shop Day" forget it. The pressing plants are all booked solid with limited edition releases form the major record labels and one-off pressings won't get a look in. When it comes to packaging you absolutely need to have a well-designed and eye-catching sleeve. This is one of things that you use to persuade people to buy the physical product rather than just stream it or get a digital download. These days short run printing is cheap, so there's no excise for not having a picture sleeve for your record so you don't have to act like the Desperate Bicycles when it comes to producing your record. Most definitely the days of ordering records in just plain paper sleeves and then wrapping them in a photocopied sheet are long over (unless you are specifically trying to recreate that late 70s DIY vibe). If you can do/afford something more than just an ordinary printed picture sleeve, that will help your record to stand out - The Terrortones had an 8-page comic with SpiderQueen and SnakeOil For Snakes comes in a clear plastic cover with the band and album name printed on it and then with 5 double-sided insert sheets to give a variety of alternative front covers depending on your mood. While you don't need a graphic designer to do your sleeve design it is worth showing the final artwork to someone who is a packaging design professional to make sure that you don't get any unpleasant surprises when your design is printed. Don't put any cover versions on the record, you'll need to pay for a MCPS licence before you can get the records pressed for any if you do, and get all the songwriters of the tracks on the record to join the PRS. Any more questions just ask away.

New BB day

I managed to make the cover of one... ...loudest gig I ever attended btw.

How come the discussion leaps from Harley Benton straight to Fodera? I've had a few dozen basses, and played a ton more... the cheapest cost me £20 or was free, the most expensive had a retail price originally of over £3k. I've played and owned some great instruments, and some that were a bit "meh". I've found generally, that there is diminishing returns the more you pay... and also conversely I'm more likely to find exceptional instruments at higher price points. I've found amazing basses that cost almost nothing, and I've found that there are some higher end basses with a real even resonance across the fretboard that I haven't found on cheaper basses. Don't over spend, don't get into debt to buy, the guy from Vulfpeck did quite well on a Mexican fender, it's not going to make you a better player, stop stressing about it, stop hating on people with more money than you, don't feel too inferior to the folk who are better players on worse kit than you, don't over-justify your own decisions without really listening to the other point of view... some people will have £5k worth of cheap instruments and moan about high end stuff not being worth it, some people have one £3k bass... shrug. It's Friday night, none of us are gigging, there's no live music to hear. I want a beer. [/rant]

This changed my life: 👍

I'm actually performing on a Kraftwerk bootleg CD (IIRC it's called "Computers In Love"). It's made up of recordings from their 1981 tour including the one I attended at Rock City in Nottingham. For the second encore "Pocket Calculator" the band came down to the front of the stage playing various portable devices, and after the line "By pressing down a special key, It plays a little melody" they held out one the keyboards to the audience to allow them to press the keys. Being down the front and in the right place at the right time, one of these tunes is being played by me.

Good to see the old ‘tone is in the fingers’ comment doing the rounds again. It’s true that varying your attack and hand position can alter the timbre of a given sound, but you simply cannot make a P bass sound like a 70s Jazz with your fingers unless you use said fingers to install pickups 😂

Voodoo sells.

For what it's worth. . . . . . I have been interested in this since the 70s and generally follow a rule of play it/listen to it and then decide if you like it, as opposed to Look at the name on the head an see how Visually appealing it is, Being lucky enough to be able to select several different instruments at one time, I have vever really found a solid and consistant rule of thumb. There is a thread on at the moment about plywood bodies and I have/have had various ones of those and can honestly say that some were absolute dogs and some were really very good. I can (and have, many times) take three or four of something, same make and model/same year/or one year younger or older, maybe different colour but that's all and the all have subtle differences. I have had £150 purchaces and been blown away by the sound and conversely bought something online (which we all do now but didn't 20/30 years ago) because it seemed to tick all my criteria boxes but just couldn't get to love it - tonewood/high mass bridge/fancy pots/high end tuners etc but just couldn't get on with it. Being interested in this, I have gone through the posts and I think bubinga5 made a valid comment " It will always be the sum of the parts. Way too many variables to nail any conclusions down". It is also about fashions, anyone old enough would remember the days when most players lusted for the new this and the new that and older instruments would have been seen to be "high milage" and needed to be replaced. Now, those old instuments are highly prized. Are they all made from exotic woods, perhaps not. Having said all of the above, I am like almost all on here and my head has been turned by something that I have loved the look of and may have been lucky on many occasions, to find that I did like it. Blindfolded, can you really tell the difference between a £10,000 bass and a £5000 bass with beautiful and appealing tonewoods . . . . . maybe, maybe not. Can you tell between a £5000 bass and a £500 bass. . . . maybe, maybe not. Between £500 and £50, more than likely, yes. Fit a new set of strings, a different sound and tone - different lead/head/cab/room/floor/ceiling = different sound and tone. This is something that will roll on for generations, I believe it's a personal thing - maybe best to leave it that no one is right and no one is wrong. 👍😎

My two BBs

You couldn’t buy a bass today with a ‘flimsy’ bridge if you tried, and you’d have to be especially unlucky to have any reliability issues at all. Rest assured you really won’t use the extra frets, that’s what your guitar is for . Safest bet starting out is just buy the bass you like the look of the most.

That example is disgusting 🤣🤣🤣. I don’t get the relic thing. If I ever win the lottery, I’ll buy loads of old messed up fenders and refinish them. In poly.

This bass is simply stunning. Visually everything just works perfectly, from the warmth of the colours to the modern hardware. The craftsmen ship is, from the diary, absolutely top notch and I can only imagine it'll sound superb. We all like different features but there is nothing on this bass I could imagine changing. Absolutely perfect. 🙂👍

One other thing I forgot to mention. You will need some form of digital version to go with a vinyl-only release. Either a CD included in the packaging or a link to free download. You'll find that very few people actually play the records they buy but simply add the digital version to their computer or phone. These days the free download is the way to go. If you sell your record through Bandcamp they will give you 200 download codes for free and you can buy more at starting at 100 codes for $3. Edit: and get your EP on all the streaming and download services using an Aggregator. Some take a very low percentage of your sales and streaming income but require you to pay a yearly subscription in order to keep your music available on line. Others charge a one-off fee for your music to be available for ever but also take a higher proportion of any income generated. Have a look at what the various services charge and pick the one that you think will shut your band the best. I have music available on-line through CD Baby, Catapult and Distrokid. However unless you have a video that goes viral to go with the release don't expect to make much money from on-line sales. Ultimately The Terrortones made less than 5% of the total sales value of our music from on-line (both physical mail order and streaming/downloads). The other 95% came from selling actual records and CDs at gigs (remember them?). In fact none of my music available for download/streaming has yet recouped it's initial Aggregator set-up fees. However as a promotional tool it is pretty much required.

Careful....you may find you're upsetting many of his previous clients...😉

If we've learnt anything at the numerous tests at Bass bashes is that even bass players/owners struggle to tell the differences. I think the closest we've come to any agreement is that Rosewood fretboards tend to be "warmer" than Maple boards. Personally, I agree with @Doctor J, that looks make a difference. If I like the looks of a bass then this will influence whether I fall in love with the tones. If all of this is only a placebo effect then great...if others don't agree, so what...

I go with what looks nice 🙂

You may consider Custom Shop prices outrageous but when you consider the instruments they're replicating - mass produced by largely unskilled labour using some of the cheapest, most plentiful woods at the time - sell for multiples of even Custom Shop prices, it might change your perspective, no? What's worth considering is how cheap some instruments are, not just how expensive others are. There's a whole lot of exploitation built into your £99 Harley Benton. When you consider the cost of the raw materials alone, never mind the taxes and duties, the transportation, everyone taking their cut along the way, it does't leave much for the poor bastards who built it, does it? Comparing the cost of something made where worker's rights don't exist and living standards are barely above the level of vermin and using it as means to gripe about how expensive instruments made elsewhere is just a little misguided, in my opinion.

Matching phoenix tail feathers for the neck cores? "The wand chooses the wizard, Harry, just like the bass chooses the player"

This is the point I've debated with. There is nothing wrong with a cheap bass, but there may very well be something a little sinister about how it's made, not just the pennies on the pound some of these people get paid, but the responsibility behind sourcing the materials to make them. Cheap is often cheap because someone is getting a bad deal, and that someone is usually the person who physically made it. I would rather pay more knowing that everything is a fair deal, though I appreciate I am in a fortunate enough position to have the luxury of taking that stance. There is a question of morality between the pros of a cheap bass and the ethics behind its creation and the expense of a custom bass which supports a single craftsperson. The same arguement can be had with almost everything we consume - cheap is cheap for a reason, though buying something expensive isn't always proof of a better product. The choppy waters of ethical buying are often hard to navigate with purposefully confusing currents put in play by those who wish to steer you towards a particular purchase.

I do full builds, mods, tweaks and what have you. Personally I really don’t care if it is assembled or made from scratch, as long as I enjoy doing it. Whilst I am relatively capable, my full builds are not Ken Smiths or Wals, nor would I expect them to be and in turn I would not judge anyone for using parts instead of building things themselves. It is so dependent on time, money, equipment, talent and skill. Not all bass players are equal, but they are all bass players. Same with bass builders. So as long as people are transparent about what they have done I have zero issues at all. And mind you, many custom basses are made by CNC ... so you should not even attempt to draw a line.

Some leftover oak worktop, an hour or so in the garden with the chopsaw and drill/hole saw, and a bit of rasping and sanding, plus some sticky-back rubber from hobbycraft and some osmo oil to finish…

I don't think you get the 'tone is in the hands' quote. It's not about making a Jazz sound like a Precision or a Hofner or whatever. It's about how a particular player brings their individually to an instrument. It's why Pino sounds different to JJ Burnell even though they both play Precisions, or why Marcus sounds different to Jaco even though they both play Jazz Basses. Likewise, a player can play different basses, and while there will be a change in sound due to the instrument, there is still something recognizable in the tone due to the player. Look how many discussions there are about whether Geddy Lee played his Jazz or Ric.

Amongst my modest collection of 7 basses there are MIJ, MIK, MIRC, Indonesia & unknown. Previously I've had MIA & MIM. The price or origin does not influence my decision to keep or move on, only the feel & voice of the instrument after a setup and a few weeks of playing it. I have noticed over the last several years though how the cheaper models have improved in quality. This must be down to improved QC and with CNC machining the accuracy & consistency of manufacturing. Sure, "you get what you pay for" is still true to a certain extent but not a hard & fast rule. It's good that a decent instrument can be had from the word go for a modest outlay. In the 60's when guitars first became popular there was a rush by manufactures to meet demand and quality was variable to say the least. But we didn't know any better. We didn't know about setups & intonation. String type & gauge were limited too. I would say we're spoiled for choice now whatever your budget. And with easier access to information we are better informed before we buy, thanks to places like BC.

I know, I'm an idiot. It ruined that gig for everyone. The audience were visibly shocked at the deterioration in sound quality.

And given Andy's skills and experience, the matter rests there.

This. "Uhh... have you got a spare 4-way?" "No, sorry, I haven't. Where's yours? Did you forget it?" "No, I just haven't got one. But you've got a spare socket on yours. Will it reach over here?" "Yes, if I fish it out from where I've tucked it tidily behind/under all my other stuff, and instead drape it (and all my cables that are plugged into it) right across the middle of the room/stage." "Well, we'd better do that then, because I need to plug my stuff in." "..." Although this is not quite as annoying as the time we arrived at a gig to find that the PA guy hadn't finished setting up yet, so we dumped our gear and went off to get a beer while he finished. On returning, I started to set up my bass gear, only to discover that my 4-way wasn't in my leads bag. I then noticed that this was because the PA guy had taken it from my bag and used it to plug one of his amp racks in...! He was quite alarmed and seemingly surprised when I unplugged it... 🙄

Nice little run through of the 121 settings on bass with fixed filter settings (even more variety available on top of that by adjusting the filter dials) - but gives a pretty good intro to the pedal on bass.

Found this on a pal's FB page

You overestimate the size of the portions. I always decline the waffer theeen mint.

And finally (I really do think that's it unless HJ has any specific questions that I haven't addressed), when you get your tracks mastered make sure that they are optimised for cutting to vinyl. There are certain things that are perfectly acceptable for digital reproduction that will render your record either uncuttable and/or unplayable. Things to watch out for a extreme low frequency boost and anything involving phase differences across the stereo field - vinyl being a mechanical playback medium absolutely hates phase changes that occur across the stereo field. A quick and dirty check for stereo phase problems (although it won't pick up everything that will be problematic for vinyl reproduction) is to play back your recordings in mono. If any effects or instruments either disappear or become significantly louder when you do this then there is a stereo phase problem. It is better to catch as many of these as possible before you have the tracks mastered as there is nothing worse than being told by the mastering engineer that you need to have stuff remixed because the current versions aren't capable of being cut to vinyl. Also you should have separate masters made for your digital versions - i.e. for submitting to your Aggregator for iTMS, Spotify etc. as well as for making promo CDs if you need these. Ideally get them "Mastered For iTunes" which should compensate as far as possible for changes to the mix caused by lossy compression used for downloads and streaming. Any mastering service that tells you you can use the same masters for both digital and vinyl isn't worth bothering with and you should look elsewhere.

Anything is worth it if you can afford and it makes you happy.

Or maybe somethings truly unique: A fretless and fretted pair might be had for a wedge that big, might even be able to get matching tops & all sorts of wonders...

Sex with a Voodoo doll of yourself is the only true example of a closed infinity loop.

-

Something is only “worth” what someone else is willing to pay for it.

I know this isn't a 'relic rant' thread, but I just don't understand the relic look... in any other industry it would be classed as insanity - 'Come buy your brand new relic'd Ford, we've smashed it up a bit for you to make it look like you've rolled down a genuine Californian hillside'. Why pay 60% over the odds for a bass/guitar that's been sandpapered a bit and had a few rocks thrown at it. They just look like battered instruments to me so why pay more for damage?? I don't get it. Even with true vintage instruments, the better the condition the higher the value, so it just seems like the attraction is people wanting to make it appear like they've been gigging for years and are seasoned pro's when they likely are not. Just my personal 2 cents! Opinion is subjective and beauty is in the eye of the beholder so really who am I to judge!!