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And he we are again, what are transparent compressors good for in a pub band? Not about to try and teach anyone to suck eggs, if you know this stuff, sorry for the post, if you are not really interested please skip it, if you want to know why a compressor might help you in a live situation when it apparently 'does nothing' or 'kills my dynamics' then feel free to have a read. Its like a very cut down compressor 101 chat I gave once, which some of you are still scarred by..... Originally compression was supposed to be a transparent tool to prevent an engineer from having to ride a fader throughout a take or a mix. All it was supposed to do was keep that level more even - as often as not by just slightly modifying the envelope of the input sound, hence the attack and release control. And with VCA compressors they pretty much achieved it. But before VCA compressors there were Vari-mu compressors (real tube compressors), Optical compressors and FET compressors. All these types have pluses and minuses, they all have different attack and release curves all of which do more than just transparently alter volume and help out an engineer. On top of these types of compressor there is tape compression and and amp/driver compression - no driver is completely compression free when you push it hard, no amp is compression free when you push it hard, all overdrives and distortions and fuzzes are also compressors, just totally not transparent ones. The best ever compressor you will ever experience is the pair you have strapped on to the side of your head all day. Yes your ears/brain are simply the most powerful compressor you can buy. The quietest sound you can hear is equivalent to your ear drum moving the width or a single molecule apparently, whilst the loudest sound you can hear before deafening yourself pretty much instantly is hundreds of thousands of times louder (you need to look into the way sound pressure level measured in micro pascals and decibels work as units of measurement). That amazing set of compressors on the side of your head has an unfortunate side effect, without a direct reference you are almost totally volume blind, small changes in volume are beyond you to describe, you can not reliably perceive them. Unless they are compared to a level that has not changed and is not changing. Obviously bigger differences are easy to perceive but the differences that can make or break a mix, if you aren't listening to the the mix happening at the time, nope, not a hope. So a deliberately transparent compressor you can't hear working on your signal in isolation, until you are doing way to much with it, and thats about when you feel your dynamics disappearing, because you are doing huge amount of compression in order to hear anything much at all. In a mix way less compression would be 'enough' to change the envelope of your signal to make your instrument be easier to hear, but you aren't in a mix so in order to hear anything at all you put way too much compression on. Thing is, a studio engineer has the time and choice to select the right type of compressor for the particular part of a track he/she wants it for and then set it up just so. What it does to an instrument in a mix then is help prevent 'masking', this is where the envelope of the signal drops in such a way, either because of the player's technique or their instrument or their preferred tonal choices that some other instrument makes it hard to hear when it plays at the same time. Near the end of a mix when two instruments are masking each other I have found that a change of as little as 0.1dB can sometimes make a real difference to the way a pair of instruments sound in a mix. Back to live then. If you are trying to use a compressor to help you be heard in a mix you need very very little for it to make a difference. If you are using compression for a definite effect then you may need bucket loads. If you like your tone as it is but feel you sometimes 'disappear' in the mix and are constantly turning up, then a transparent compressor, set just right, could be the answer to the fight. But you need good critical listening skills, you need to do this 'in the mix' unless you have great metering on the pedal to help you out otherwise you probably will put too much compression on the sound in order to hear it happening. Compression is difficult to master when you are in the safe space of a mix down with no distractions and lots of time to experiment. In order to make it 'easier' to use many pedals have no 'confusing' metering and not all the required parameters to really control the compression. This is a double edged sword, no metering and 'doing it by ear' are nigh on impossible with a transparent compressor unless you are setting it up in situ in the mix. On the other hand a full featured compressor is waaay to complex for an average bassist to get the best out of, and also remember that little detail about setting it right for a particular song? Well you cant with an always on compressor, so you have to set it to help you a little bit all the time, and that's another skill. Ultra low ratio (1.5 to 1 even), very low threshold, slow-ish attack (50 to 80 ms) and fast release (less than 30ms) giving not more than 3dB total compression on the loudest parts is probably a good target for a general touch of compression type of setting on bass live IME. No you cant really hear or feel it if you are just playing solo (dont be concerned if when playing normally the 3dB light doesnt light up at all, you are still getting some compression if your threshold is set right). In the mix you will be easier to hear, whether you are a loud or quiet band. Not because of tonnes of compression but because your individual note envelopes are changed just a smidge so that the post transient part of the note envelope is a touch louder than before. Hope that makes some sense, probably not though

My BB2024X arrived I was worried for a short while that it'd be just the same as my 1024x ....and I'd be a few (!) quid poorer....but the more I've played it (only had it a few hours) the more the differences really show. First thing was the weight, noticeably lighter than the 1024x. The neck on 2024x is slicker with slightly less clunky dimensions (I've not measured! Just my initial feel), the neck near the heel is finished much more smoothly meaning access higher up is a lot easier, quite noticeable. Finish much much nicer (to be expected though given price difference). Frets are also not as 'tall' which certainly adds to the playability. Sound-wise, there isn't a lot in it as has probably been expressed elsewhere, and they are currently wearing different strings so not an accurate comparison, but the 2024 seems a bit more articulate and even across the board....but maybe only the player can tell! Overall, couldn't be happier! Merry xmas to me

I had a Mesa Boogie RR 2x18 that stopped the UK from lifting off into the air.

Now then. Some of you may recall the Smitten Kitten thread from a while back. I fell in love with a five-string Mike Lull NRT5, sold a bunch of basses and put in an order. Six months on, the photo below dropped into my inbox today with a brief message saying Mike Lull will be building it this week, so hopefully I'll see it before Christmas. I guess it's pretty rare to see his work like this, so posting here. I am heartedly excited. P

I've had a look and can't see mention of this elsewhere. Alan Cringeon is a valued friend. I've followed his career as a luthier for at least 11 years, from the early days. Many of you will know him and his work, either directly or from various bass resources. I won't go on but I would like to offer my congratulations as a Salace 5 String E-Type has just been awarded the accolade 'Fretless Bass of 2017' by Bass Guitar Magazine. I know how much time, effort and pure craft Alan has devoted to building both basses and guitars over the years and I for one am dead chuffed for him. Peter

In that case, I can only conclude that most bass players are unaware of what a comp is for and what it really does - and therefore don't know how to use it properly. And the effect of proper use in any case is likely to be so subtle that it will be less than the difference to be got from using a different bass or a different set of strings. So in the chaos of your average pub gig it's hardly worth bothering with a comp pedal and therefore you can save yourself a considerable amount of cash by not buying one. So I will do what I have done for decades, rely on professional engineers and producers to do their thing, and save myself a ton of mental grief and anguish simply by not thinking about pedal comps ever again! It would seem that one would be better off directing one's time and effort into being a better bass player rather than dabbling with forces one does not understand... Thus will the geeks inherit the Earth! These compressor threads are a fecking minefield! I'm out!

We've just got an early Xmas present! The Contour is one of 5 instruments cited in the 'Best Acoustic Basses' category of Bass Guitar Magazine's 'Gear of the Year' round-up for 2017. According to the citation: "...the tones can't be denied." The Contour is the only electro-acoustic bass guitar to be selected from the premium £1500-plus price bracket. We're well chuffed with that!

You'd be best off to replace the 1/4" in the cab with Speakon, or have it done for you. 1/4" is fine in its original intended application, telephone switchboards, but where speakers are concerned there's nothing about them to recommend.

I'd put the percentage who hold that belief to be closer to five. Don't confuse religious fundamentalism with political conservatism. Even on that the percentage of American voters who are true conservatives is nowhere near half. As with true liberals it's more like 15%. The vast majority are actually centrist, with leanings one way or another, but not strict agendas. OTOH the percentage of Americans who are numbingly stupid probably does approach half, but occasionally something happens that reaffirms the potential for hope that we still have a future, yesterdays election result in Alabama, for instance.

Mine arrived yesterday, it sounds amazing out of the box so I can't wait to get fiddling with the settings!

It's good to see you publicly embracing your inner Bill Oddie Maybe you could change your user name to Owl Crow in homage to the great man? PS - you forgot Freebird.

Was it still functional afterwards?

Hi Chiliwailer I have spare strap extension that you are welcome to have. No charge. Let me know if you want it. It might be better to wait until the new year before posting due to the Christmas rush? You'll have to drill two holes in the extension piece, one at each end, (easily done) and one hole in the guitar for the extension to swivel on. It rests against the existing strap button to stop it in the correct positon. I'll send a pic. Frank.

I would stick with the spector, I've never found a rick I can get on with and also find Ricks to lack versatility

Adam tried to impress Eve by 'doing a Jaco' but she said it was aimless noodling.

This way nobody can be tempted to ever hookup an instrument cable...

Agree...I love the finish on my Harlot SC...

Some stuff:

I'm not sure which I prefer - Mike must be chuffed to have the choice.... Good work Andy.

Oh no! A music stand! I thought he was a world-class bassist...

@51m0n thank you again, you are my knight in armour. i would like your post, by The BC compression rules have stated I reached my max like quota. just to complete what you have eloquently said, one is the Cali76G compresso with a Germanium and the second is a Compact Bass, so 2 different animals....!

My main rig. Basses rotate but these two for the last few gigs. Super Bassman with neo 410, no effects etc... Sometimes when I like to scare our drummer I use the neo 810

believe me, i don't underestimate it one bit (although I do question a lot of the rationale behind it) - it's an ongoing discussion we have regarding why we need a 100W 4x12 on one side and a very loud AC30 head into a 2x12 on the other....if they played 12/15W combos there would be no discussion and i wouldn't have to play the volume game with my BF Super Twin

You're in good company, I don't think Lemmy had ever played a bass until he started playing with Hawkwind, and he didn't do too bad!

I have my little frequency chart with me in the gig bag which is very simple but handy in a pinch. It’s not compression related and may have a typo but it’s a general guide. I should have recommended compression ratios on the back for various instruments too now I think about it .

Hmmm, interesting. The chunky neck joint and associated trouble accessing higher notes was one of the only things that bugged me with my old 1025x. Good to know the 20’s are sleeker in that department!

This is why I suggest folk have a listen to some studio engineers and recording/advice on you tube...yeah it can be hit and miss but there are some great sources out there.Then via DAWor an fx processor if you have one play along to tunes with headphones and experiment with settings. To preface this my singer/guitarist in the pub band is a sound guy..claims to be anyway...we had a terrible feedback from a fiddle (an electric fiddle mind not an acoustic) on a gig and at the half time break I asked him about eq- he hadn’t a clue what he was doing...I asked him if he was using a compressor.....he hadn’t a clue. I mitigated the issue and vowed to learn a bit more about eq. I kinda knew about freqs and mids and a little bit of knowledge on compression and it got us by, found the offensive freq and dialed it out. Since then I’ve been picking up bits and pieces and now he has actually listened to me and allowed me to eq the drums and do a bit more in getting a nice mix for his in ears, using hpf on some channels etc. The only real way to figure this stuff out is to do it in some capacity and try it live when you can.

@5im0n thanks for that lovely explanation it makes complete sense to me, I sincerely hope you are ready for more of @Al Krow questions now, or rebuttals, i’m Getting some popcorn

@51m0n that's a great post For me this is the critical point. I think some people assume that compression will be an obvious effect in the same way that a drive or delay is. While it can be, for compression to be useful and usable, you will almost always need to use it sparingly. Due to it not always being obvious, I think there is a tendency to dial in a sound that you can obviously hear, which as you rightly say, by that time you have squeezed the life out of your bass sound. With compression less is usually more. The analogy I like is to think of it adding salt to a bag of chips (I'm not really sophisticated enough for the spice cliche ). If you buy a Kilo bag of salt and tip it all over your chips they'll be inedible. But just add a pinch and there's an instant agreeable improvement.

It means that a good half of the population of the US believes the world to be about 6,000 years old and to have been made in 6 days, so one is advised to treat their pronouncements on anything scientific/technical with caution (Bill F is an exception, obviously).

I've got a fusion bag. It was originally designed for a Dj controller but fits the helix like a glove. Its got so many cool extras like a zip in/out laptop bag, headphones bag, endless pockets etc. Build quality is exceptional too. Doesn't have a lift off lid but there's a few dj controller cases out there that do.

He Hartley felt a thing.

Thank you Frank, that’s a blinding offer and much appreciated, after Xmas sounds like a good plan. I’ll send you postage costs and make a gift on your behalf to your favoured charity. @kodiakblair did that for me once and I thought it was a great gesture Cheers

Why the either/or? There is no "one ring to rule them all". Have one of each. I personally find the Ric the most natural bass to play of any I've tried. As far as versatility goes, I would say that the Ric doesn't lend itself to slap'n'pop. That's my preference; if other folks think otherwise, then that's their preference.

Another cover band broad stroke. Opinion & Generalization Blue

You should absolutely always choose a bass that you find comfortable. I tend to that think whatever instrument you learn on has implications for what you may or may not find comfortable. I learned to play on a Ric so don’t have any problems in that respect ( & mine balance fine; I’ve had a couple with bigger headstocks which were a little neck-heavy, but no more than most Fenders I‘ve had) whereas for me a Fender Jazz is about as uncomfortable as an instrument gets (and all the Jazzes I‘ve owned have nosedived, bar one which weighed a ton). Obviously YMMV.

The success of people like Lozz and Ambient is truly inspiring to me. I play in original bands too and I'd love to get to that point, even if I am still working my day job. Playing covers in the pub at the weekend has absolutely no appeal to me at all - nothing against it, it's just not for me. I've left many pubs because of bands playing "classic rock covers", even if they're playing them really well, it just grates for some reason. It's all subjective isn't it

Hi! I am Geo and I've just made my first bass cover to Vulfpeck - Dean Town and I want to share it with you.

Our 18” Cab was so big we put a door in the back and hung the band jackets inside when we were between gigs.

In my exerience, with some guitarists in some bands, it can help to encourage the guitarist, or other musicians, to stop calling it a 'solo' and to stop thinking of it as a 'solo'. The 'instrumental interlude' should involve all members of the band - it's not all about one instrument with everyone else doing as they are told.

Absolutely stunning!!

Title says ”live bands compress bass since when” since the Dawn of time....

Mr. Big, Defying Gravity. Have there been any others?

I use dunlop 1mm, the black nylon ones, they work well. It's amazing what a difference different picks make to the sound.

I've already expressed at length how I think there are great basses, and I am a fan. Had I the cash right now, I'd be snappping off your hand for one of your cut price Cuntour S's. However I now cannot unsee that the headstock reminds me of Mr Greedy:

Indeed - this is just normal capitalism. The original owner could have tried to sell it at £780, but he didn't. It was his choice.

Correct. The original seller should have done his homework.